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Direction of step 4 of spin turn
Posted by anymouse
6/2/2007  9:09:00 AM
Over in dance music section, ylchen commented:

"(Natural spin turn 456 ( waltz), my Chinese coach lead me toward DW ( I called it overturn or not start from backing DC , right turn 1/8 , backing LOD , to lead me forward to LOD on 4 . I carefully asked him, if it quite difficult to lead me along LOD so we can move longer distance than back to DW. He said, competitors did it , don't depend on what the book said.) I had to shut up my mouth in such condition despite I thought we should move along LOD if he gave me the way I wanted on 4 , giving him big room to lead and complete the spin and last step on 5,6 .I believed that I will meet someone dancing in this way."

The basic idea of step 4 of a spin turn, or really almost anything following a normally aligned 123 of any 3/8 turn to the right, is to move directly down the LOD, probably while using CBM body rotation to begin another turn. And the key idea to remember is that CBM is a rotation of the body, but NOT YET a change in direction.

Many forget that there's supposed to be a change in direction of progression during step 2-3 of 3/8 turning figures. In the foxtrot, it's obvious, given the foot passing, that steps 1 and 2 move to DW, but step three is now moving down the LOD. In a waltz turn with foot closure we must actually accomplish the same change, only because step 3 is merely a closing we won't really "see" that a new direction of down the LOD has been established during it. But as you lower in the latter part of three, the new direction should become apparent.

Returning to step 4, the idea here is that the forwards partner - the lady - is going to go directly down the LOD on step four, and actually step 5 as well. But the catch is that she has to get past her partner by the early part of step 5. Many leaders (and equally followers when in that situation) detour too far to the side thinking this will make it easier. It really doesn't. Chris & Hazel were a good example - she would go directly down the LOD, but he would get stuck off to the side, and their frame would open up a bit there, often they would loose contact. Instead, what the leader needs to do is gently curve the track of his foot, so that it lands only about a foot WIDTH towards the wall. In addition, he will probably want to toe in the foot placement some. But unless his partner is really, really overweight, he doesn't actually have to go very far to the side at all in order to make it possible for her to go past on the next step. Conceptually, the sideways displacement should be a lot smaller than many imagine.

So that gets us back to the establishment of a new direction on step 3. Many don't have the stability there to do it... instead, they end up continuing to move to the wall. Often associated is not really lowering on three. On some of the teenage competitors you'll actually see that the heel never touches down on step three, and they only lower into step 4. A lot of the adults are only better in that they get their heel down, but they still haven't lowered or moved in the proper direction.

In summary, what is required is that an intent to move down the LOD (instead of continuing to the wall) be "declared" during step three, BEFORE the lowering. The lowering must occur in the down LOD direction, not the DW direction. Then, the inside partner must minimize their detour to the inside, until it is no more than required for their partners actual girth. Finally, the turn will be assisted if they toe in a little bit - that is really all that is required, not actually taking a step to DW.

But given that you can see world finalists who still have a way to go on mastering this, try not to be too hard on local teachers!
Re: Direction of step 4 of spin turn
Posted by quickstep
6/2/2007  8:42:00 PM
I think all Yichin wants to know is . Is step four dignal to the wall or down the LOD. I would say look at any video and see for yourself. I doubt if you will see any going down the LOD anymore. This is a Natural Spin Turn in the Waltz International style. If you have a chart simply turn it clockwise so you are looking at it corner to corner.
Re: Direction of step 4 of spin turn
Posted by anymouse
6/2/2007  9:03:00 PM
"I think all Yichin wants to know is . Is step four dignal to the wall or down the LOD."

It's most definitially supposed to be down LOD, and the top ladies are all going that way.

The catch is that many of the men, even at suprisingly high levels, are unable to fully support this. Due to bad aim, they don't manage to create a new movement down the LOD and instead drift off to the wall. Due to conceptual misunderstanding they tend to curve even further off to the side.

The proof is in their inability to stay with the lady as they make this mistake.

You might also want to review the "Turning too soon" thread in which an alias "Looking learning" that sounds suspiciously like you, posted this:

"I am told that a common mistake among the not so good is. Not going to the end of the step. Which results in a shorter step than it should be. Also turning into a step and again not turning at the end of. Has anybody else been told about this mistake."

That's exactly the problem we see on the spin turn's step 4 - people are turning their track of progression INTO the step, rather than beyond it. CBM, as you well know by now, is a rotation of the BODY, but not yet a turn in the direction of progression, rather it merely sets us up for a potential future turn.
Re: Direction of step 4 of spin turn
Posted by ylchen
6/5/2007  12:59:00 AM
Oh, I love what you said here absolutely. Especially top lady are going that way although I am a beginner. I believed the right alignment and timing will help man to " catch" easily and finally to have a good natural spin and right way ( Two teachers asked me to dance in this way and I could do it in right timing and right direction now . ) The text book is a good basic for dancing and a possible way to solve problems , but not all, We have to develop something better also. So , my opinion is that we based on it but not limited by it . Keep open mind to any suggestion or keep trying.
Chen

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