You need to look at that again or reword it.. There is 3/8ths of a turn over the three steps. Not step four. Step four does not come into this at this point The next 1/2 turn includes step four. I think you will find the amounts of turn correct.
We are taught very much like the book on that first step with a 1/4 turn over the RF. After completing the rest of the turn and if you happen to dance with one of these top ladies you will detect a very suttle movement of the feet after they are drawn together getting both feet in the direction they will be going.

"You need to look at that again or reword it.. There is 3/8ths of a turn over the three steps. Not step four."

The turn occuring on step four is not included, becuse it does not influence the direction of step four - it can only influence what comes after step four.

As a result, there is, IN FACT, 3/8 turn between the direction of step one, and the direction of step four. Outline your footrpints and get a protractor.

"Step four does not come into this at this point"

What happens during step four doesn't come into it yet, but the position where step four lands is a reflection of the amount of turn - 3/8 - that is to be accomplished during the first three steps.

"The next 1/2 turn includes step four. I think you will find the amounts of turn correct."

If step one goes to DW, and step four also goes to DW, then the amount of turn are INCORRECT - and that is precisly the problem that I - and ylchen - are talking about. Look at your book again, and you will see that step four goes down LOD, it does not go off to the wall.

Or dig out Moore and his foot charts - pretty much a straight movement down LOD between the footprints of step 3 and step 4. The man's ball of foot deflects a tiny distance towareds the wall from where it started - but if you look with real care, you'll see that the lady has actually moved her foot very slightly to CENTER! Small details, but nothing like the drastic departure to DW that we often see mistakenly made.

"After completing the rest of the turn and if you happen to dance with one of these top ladies you will detect a very suttle movement of the feet after they are drawn together getting both feet in the direction they will be going."

Indeed - but the direction they will be going after a 3/8 turn natural commenced DW is down LOD. If the man goes off to DW on the next step, he's not going to be with his partner. And that's the mistake that this thread is addressing.

But you can't see that... you can't see that the amount of turn is actually wrong, and instead imagine that the figure was simply started from a different alignment. It wasn't - the actual amount of turn within the figure was wrong.

Get the charts out. The book will have to be turned on its side. After turning the book 1/4 of turn clockwise. Where is step four now. Its diagnal to the wall. The amounts of turns haven't altered have they. I knew it would beyond grasping. By the way what makes you think todays ladies take step four LOD If they keep the right side of their chest with the right side of their partners chest they will go in the same direction. See clips on this site. Even if they have that old cave man hip contact they would still go in the same direction.
In parting. For any given software, the momment you manage to master it a new version of that software appears on the market. Isn't that right.

"Get the charts out. The book will have to be turned on its side. After turning the book 1/4 of turn clockwise."

Why do you keep assuming that the grouping started with a movement to wall, WHEN YOU HAVE BEEN REPEATEDLY INFORMED THAT IT STARTED WITH A MOVEMENT TO DW?

Why don't you just admit that you don't pay any attention to what you are replying to?

The commencing alignment was as documented in the book, thus step four should be as documented in the book. No rotating the map - if step four goes in a different direction after the same beginning, the THE AMOUNT OF TURN HAS BEEN CHANGED.

Hello, pictured the 2-3 mainn points prio to dance with other lady in easy hold , I was able to lead her or follow her right turn 1/8 and lower heel before 4, back LOD then right side gave way via my left foot toe in ,pivot turn right 1/2,continued with right foot ,HT drove up and turned back DC on 6 ,TH...followed by turning lock to right. We trie several time for its stability.
Thanks for your clear instruction and good advice : not too hard on others.( sorry , I extent it .)
Yes, be hard to myself is more useful and less chance to be an target attcked.
chen

Yes, no ( foot) swivel on 1, but body turn present. right ?

The Turning Lock you describe is with the lady finishing the Spin Turn facing diagnal to the centre. The most popular Turning Lock you will finish your Spin Turn facing down the LOD.
The Spin Turn used is called an Overturned Spin Turn.
There are three types of Spin Turns. One is under turned. Then there is the normal Spin Turn and last the Overturned Spin Turn. Each will have different amounts of Turn. You will not do a Turning Lock from an underturned Natural Spin Turn where the lady finishes facing diagnal to the centre against the LOD. Then man is the natural opposite in each case. Keep going.

"Yes, no ( foot) swivel on 1, but body turn present. right ?"

Depends on what you mean by 1.

If you are going by the book description, 1 would be the first step of the natural turn, and would have no foot swivel.

If you are counting 1 as the first step of the spin turn action, it's more complicated. The written description is of a partial pivoting action on that step (though not as complete of one as in the natural pivot turn), and a pivoting action is only semantically different from a swivel action.

But in actual practice, most serious dancers are not doing much of a pivot there at all. Instead, they are placing the foot with some toe in for the backwards partner, and using body rotation only. This is a much more powerful and dynamic way to do it, and really improves the progressive flow. It's even fairly common to dance consecutive pivots with something of this technique - actually spinning the ball of the weight bearing foot on the floor is a fairly precarious thing to do. Compare the precarious look of beginners who may take the written instruction over-literally, to that of more experienced dancers who move through the step, rather than trying to balance and spin on the ball of foot.

(Another camp of champion-quality dancers does a heel pivot instead of a ball pivot, or the more common body-turn-only)

Nobody has mentioned that step four if taken down the LOD will go farther than a step that is taken diagnal to the wall. That is why I asked how long should a Spin Turn be using an ordinary sized door which is 32 inches wide as a guide. Also remembering that the winner is not the one who goes around the room the quickest.

"That is why I asked how long should a Spin Turn be using an ordinary sized door which is 32 inches wide as a guide."

The spin turn, like any step, should be the proper size for the situation in which it is used.

Without knowing the details of the situation - dancer's heights, ability, goals, artistic ideas, preceding and following actions etc, we can't determine the proper size of the step.