how does a wider side step help absorb the energy ? i guess the reaction force of the floor on the RF would absorb the energy and the effect of the step size may then be analogous to a lever effect ?? maybe that is the reason for the H/IE footwork too (ie to maximise reaction torque in a direction that would oppose the body rotation).



as for the very small pull in the corner q/s: my suggestion is it's to keep the feet on the linear track ie so they might brush past one another on the next forward step in the absence of a hesitation brush (not a problem in the foxtrot because the LF has more time to track during the next forward step).

i am not sure what you mean by tightness. if you mean amount of turn then that is the same in both quickstep figures, and so can't be a factor. but if you mean size of step - fine - but that just seems like restating the problem.

"it's to keep the feet on the linear track ie so they might brush past one another on the next forward step in the absence of a hesitation brush (not a problem in the foxtrot because the LF has more time to track during the next forward step)."

Yes that is effectively what I meant but you have put it better.
The amount of turn is the same but the distance traveled is smaller which to me makes the turn tighter. Perhaps a better term would be - more compact.

"how does a wider side step help absorb the energy ?"

If you place the step outside of your center of gravity, you can be briefly and slightly off balance, which will exert a force slowing your arrival over that foot. It's not the kind of thing that would require any conscious thought, you've been doing it to control your movement since you were two or three years old.

But you can also soften the knee enough as you approach a step that this effect does not happen. Both are choices in your toolkit.

Has anybody noticed that if you freeze frame as the feet pass on step 5 6 Reverse in the Foxtrot you wouldn't know whether they were doing a Waltz or a Foxtrot. It is the same as the foot comes to a position under the body on the Feather Step, both feet are together and on the toes. Its worth watching how high on the toes our better dancers are at this point also.
What brought this on is the mention of the feet tracking.

"Has anybody noticed that if you freeze frame as the feet pass on step 5 6 Reverse in the Foxtrot you wouldn't know whether they were doing a Waltz or a Foxtrot."

While there are some supeficial similarities, there is a vast difference between an action that closes the feet at the completion of rise, and one where the feet are temporarily closed as they pass when the body will continue. One is an ending of a swing, the other is just a signpost on the way.

You need to cultivate an instinctive awareness of this difference, because as a dancer you should already be making the nature of the action clear to your partner during the first step of the measure. You can't just do generic and change the ending, you have to enlist every stage of the action in creating the ultimate goal of this figure, not some other one.

Anonymous. If you take a close look at the man's steps on 5 6 of a Reverse Turn, which is the part under discusion. You will see a momentory pause as the feet come together for the man. This allows the lady to comfortably move past the man into the Three Step or whatever.
Incidently you should have already risen before the feet come together. Which you can also see on steps 2 3 of a Reverse Turn. And as per the instructions page 175 the man on step 4 will have foot rise. As he obviously will on step one into a Reverse.
Rise at the end of one is Foxtrot. Not commence to rise at the end of one that's Waltz.
There are Basic faults which a knowledgable judge will look for. Above are a couple of them.

"Anonymous. If you take a close look at the man's steps on 5 6 of a Reverse Turn, which is the part under discusion. You will see a momentory pause as the feet come together for the man. This allows the lady to comfortably move past the man into the Three Step or whatever."

Ideally a slowing not a pause. But that's besided the point as even if it were a pause, it would still be DRASTICALLY different from the type of end-of-rise action that occurs in foot closure waltz.

In waltz you use up everything in the rise, in foxtrot you keep something for movement.

"Incidently you should have already risen before the feet come together."

Only in the simplified binary sense of rise to which the book confines itself. The reality is that on any skilled dancers the gain of altitude continues up until the feet pass, at which point loss of altitude commences. That's the altitude, which is not the same thing as the book rise.

Anonymous. For the person going forward in both the Foxtrot and the Quickstep a step to the side after the first step is taken. You should be on your two toes and not coming off a flat foot which would present sway at the end of one and as we all know sway is on two and three. Any competent judge will pick this mistake in an instant.
If you do your frame by frame thing and stop as the feet are to together do you really see any difference between a Waltz a Quickstep or a Foxtrot at that point.
Maybe we have more thoughour teachers here. When teaching a Bronze medal class many teachers teaching a Reverse Turn Foxtrot, will have the class freeze as they go from 5 to 6 and then explain that the foot will not stop but will pass into the Feather Finish. Teaching it this way will ensure that at that point as the lady passes they are on ballance with their foot under their hip line and the foot tracking..
This is all Bronze Medal stuff and should be taught to beginners or Social Classes or whatever.
Once again Rise at the end of step one. Up on two and three. Lower at the end of three. How many of you are taught this, and the differences there are over the same steps in the Waltz.

"If you do your frame by frame thing and stop as the feet are to together do you really see any difference between a Waltz a Quickstep or a Foxtrot at that point."

Definitely. No one who understands these dances would confuse the passing instant of a passing action with a closing action for a second, as they are fundamental different.

"teaching a Reverse Turn Foxtrot, will have the class freeze as they go from 5 to 6 and then explain that the foot will not stop but will pass into the Feather Finish."

The foot will not stop because the body will not stop. Wheras in waltz the foot will stop because the body travel has momentarily stopped due to converting all the momentum into rise. The waltz action is complete and the foot closure marks the end of the swing - in the foxtrot, you only convert part of your momentum and the closing is quite clearly a passing thing, in no way an endpoint.

That's the fundamental difference you must learn to create in your dancing.

"Once again Rise at the end of step one. Up on two and three. Lower at the end of three. How many of you are taught this, and the differences there are over the same steps in the Waltz."

The major difference at the time when the feet close is not in the textbook foot rise, it is in the completeness of the conversion of momentum to altitude.

The textbook issue is somewhat minor in comparison and somewhat misleading in that the body altitude will experience a continuation upwards as the feet close which is NOT covered in the book (the book does not cover altitude change due to the legs closing and reopening, which has become quite important at today's step sizes)

The contribution of what the book does mention towards the completeness of rise is that the waltz-style commence and continue curves up more sharply, leading towards the complete conversion of momentum. In contrast, the book foxtrot rise is simply from heel lead to moderate toes, along more even path throughout the first step. Thus foxtrot rise (book plus the legs closing altitude gain) merely converts some of our movement and slows us somewhat.

Anonymous. Put it this way then. You have a ordinary camera and at the instant that the feet come together you snap them. Could you tell whether you were watching a Waltz or a Quickstep or a Foxtrot.
A lot of writting there but are you saying anything.
What does the technique book mean when it carefully chooses words like. Rise at the end of one. Do that.Rise at the end of one, up on two and three. Does that say there is further rise on two and three. Of course it doesn't.
That is a fundamental Basic that you should have learnt in a Bronze Class.
I know its hard to be told that you have been wrongly instructed or that you just didn't listen. But that's what we have to do. Be ready to change. There is so much bad teaching and dancing out there.
My body altitude will not experience a
continuation upwards as the feet close which you do obviously believe. That is not what the technique book says.
Does it. If it does in the Foxtrot tell me where.