Three things I found helped our Open telemark, One: the man coming out backwards, Two: making sure to lower enough before going into it. Three: Lady not looking where she is going when coming out. If you look at the video's of the top dancers you will see the Lady is looking up at the ceiling and not being proud like the man.

". . . the man coming out backwards, . . ."

I don't understand what you mean by this statement. Coming out of what?

jj

"The point of establshing promenade POSITION is precisely what you say it isn't. Otherwise, you're expecting the follow to pop into the promenade from memory."

The point is that you don't have to think you are in promenade to do it well. Typically, if you really try to "go to promenade" or "establish a promenade position" you will end up too open, regardless if you are dancing as man or lady.

Instead, if you simply move in a promenade direction, while trying to keep your body parallel to your partners as you always should for any position, it will probably work out quite well.

There are some drills to practice for how the legs move across the body when stepping through in promenade, but that's to make these actions comfortable and instinctive in the body for when the body finds itself doing them without thought. Drills are not dancing. In dancing you should not be thinking about promenade, you should just be moving with your partner in the room.

"". . . the man coming out backwards"
I don't understand what you mean by this statement. Coming out of what?"

It can help if the man thinks of the direction of movement in promenade situations as feeling almost backwards over his left shoulder, rather than in between the partners.

We are not going to agree on this point.

You keep ignoring what I've written in my responses so I see no reason to continue this exchange. I don't enjoy repeating myself.

You seem to be insisting that ballroom dancing is the mindless expression of some sort of quasi-mystical urge.

Drills are practice and practice turns into good dancing. Whether you want to believe so or not, dancing is a physical skill.

See you around.

jj

One of the most tedious of dance fetishes is the notion that the bodies shouldn't turn out in PP and that the position should be almost a secret between the partners.

If that were true, the definitions of PP in the standard technique references would say so. But they don't.

". . . the man coming out backwards, . . ."

I don't understand what you mean by this statement. Coming out of what?
JJ. Hillery shows how in his teaching video,but since you don't have it I will try to explain. As you turn on the 2 step keep the left toe in strong contact on the floor and draw it up under the body along side the RF to control the amount of turn you make with the left side of the body and then take the foot back and diagonal to the wall, your body will be traveling backwards and sidewards. You will finish looking somewhere between diagonal to wall against the line of dance and looking at the wall. I hope this is correct.

The "thanks" was meant for you. anymouse sneaked in there while I was writing.

Thanks.

jj

31 messages and rising. Nobody seems to mention , maybe that dont know untill this is read and recorded. If the partnership does not have the right conection at the start of the movement that is where the trouble begins. The right area of the chest of each partner touches that of the other. In plain English. the right nipple to the right nipple. In promenade it simply rolls off by the lady, and back again after the promenade step is taken. A little trip to Learn The Dances will show the body conection as it should be . Look at any of the International Style that is there for you to look at. The bodies are no longer jammed in tight at the hip level as they were once upon a time. If you have not been told this I would suggest your teacher take a few lessons.

Thank you, Polished! Jonathan and Melissa's videos clearly and irrefutably show that Promenade Position results from the man's right side (or torso if you prefer) contacting the woman's with an opening of the opposite sides.

Unfortunately, you are incorrect with your nipple-to-nipple imagery. The chests of the patners never touch regardless of their position: closed, promenade, or outside partner. Again, this point is made clear on the videos to which you refer.

Even in the intimate hold of Argentine Tango, the partners' chests do not touch. If they did, there'd be a lot more guys learning to dance.

I guess you missed my post which appears much earlier in this thread which points out the importance of a proper lead into the heel turn of the Open Telemark.

Also, it's not entirely true that the lady rolls off of the man. While she certainly appears to do so in the Progressive Link of the Tango, she is clearly put there by the man on the Whisk of the Waltz.

Thanks again. It's always so encouraging to see someone growing and learning.

jj

"Unfortunately, you are incorrect with your nipple-to-nipple imagery. The chests of the patners never touch regardless of their position: closed, promenade, or outside partner. Again, this point is made clear on the videos to which you refer."

I think you'll find that in many cases the chests do touch, at least along the lower edge of the ribcage.

The height of the body connection point (at the time when there is one) varies quite a bit from one school of thought to another, with the traditionalists usually having it higher and the dynamicists having it lower.

Now in terms of what you may think you are seeing in Jonathan's videos, if you research his comments on promenade I do believe you'll discover that he's expressed an opinion that the shoulder lines should stay quite parallel. Any change in the midsection would have to be one compatible with that. In fact, Jonathan and Melissa have appeared demonstrating a rather extreme ability to get a nearly 90 degree angle between their shoulders and their feet. letting their toplines stay parallel (well, anti-parallel) and their feet also be parallel and pointed not just towards the direction of travel, but actually parallel to it.