6 of one .. 1/2 dozen of the other .

I have colleagues who swear by Guys.. one can achieve the desired result with either .

And , I do teach by the " book" when I do medal test work..but.. i ALWAYS try to show or explain alternative theories ( even to beginners ).

Terence. We are a long way from the young ladies original question. She wanted to know about the differences in rise and fall on steps coming from Promenade in the Waltz mainly the Passing Change. I dont think anybody told her in simple to understand language that with passing steps the rise and fall will be different to the normal where the feet come together.It was in fact a Foxtrot Variation originally and will have Foxtrot technique rather than Waltz. I think that is all she needed to know.

"I think that my original point made the opposite implication, that the "rise-to-full-stop" (I'm assuming that this expression means what Howard calls Type 1 foot rise) implies the use of sway. Granted, my choice of words could have been better, but I don't believe that they suggested that the use of sway demanded such rise."

So you've found a rule for one situation in which sway is required.

My objection is that this wasn't interested's question. Instead, the question was why one type of rise vs. another should be used. Your rule is not reversible to answer that question - we agree that the existence of sway does not imply a particular type of rise. And that's why I didn't mention sway in my initial answer to the question.

"Lets hear it from you experts. We all agree there is sway on step three of a Natural or Reverse, we will use the Waltz as an example. As we rise on three there is Sway. On step four if this is a Spin Turn there is no Sway.So where do we loose that Sway . Is it whilst we are still up. Or is it on the way down , Or is it when we reach our lowest point on the count of ( and )."

All of the above. Before citing videos, realize that there are numerous proper answers.

"I've lost who said that the Foxtrot people do not get as high as in the Waltz."

More like absolute fact, but facts never bothered you much.

One more theory for consideration ( again , from Scriv )

he believed that " sway " was to some degree , used on ALL steps ( spin being obvious exception )

Thank you for your response.

With regard to the first post on this thread (by anymouse) -

Can I ask a second question related to your first point ?

In what sense should horizontal and vertical movements be regarded as alternatives ? How is each powered, independently of the other, or by the same means ?

"In what sense should horizontal and vertical movements be regarded as alternatives ? How is each powered, independently of the other, or by the same means ?"

Think of altitude (or gravitational potential energy) as being something you can trade in either direction to or for horizontal movement energy (kinetic energy). Going up slows you down, going down can speed your horizontal movement.

In the foot closure waltz elements, you almost completely convert your horizontal movement to rise. In the passing foxtrot elements, you convert only a little energy to rise, meaning less rise and only moderate slowing. Passing actions in waltz probably fall somewhere in between.

But the laws of physics say that a force acting in a particular direction can have no effect perpendicular to it.

To whoever. The amount of rise is related to the speed the music is being played. More time to rise. Does that make sense or not.

It would seem to make sense but it's just not correct. It should be obvious that despite similar tempos among waltz, foxtrot, and tango, all require different amounts of rise and fall, due to the character of the dance, partly as described to us by the MUSIC, partly as described to us by the roots of the dance.

What about tango says "no rise and fall"? Is it the tempo of the music? Of course not, it's the nature of the music. Same goes for waltz (very rotary in nature), and foxtrot (very linear, thus resulting in fewer peaks and more straight line travel). Even quickstep, with its fast tempo, will have LOTS of rise, more so than in the slow foxtrot.