Thanks PantherSon re: Glossary of term
We have another question. In The Ballroom Technique of ISTD (p. 47) and Ballroom Dancing by Alex Moore, the Timing of Natural Turn in Foxtrot is (S)QQSSS (p. 171-174) . But, in a Video Tap for Leaning Ballroom "Face the Video and Dance" by Peggy Spencer for this figure, the Timing is (S)QQSQQ. We are so confused. Which is correct timing for this one. I am not sure, may be, the right Timing of Natural Turn is (S)QQSSS.

By the way, we want to clarify some more about "Bebob". We are agreed with you, it's a music style, but we don't think so "it was born to dance along of Disco and Pop".
 1st: It's basic steps like Rock&Roll in Singapore (as we read in Gotta Dance by Kace Ong). It's Timing is SSQQ (bar values: 1 1/2), but middle of the two S is inserted a Tap.
 2nd: We live in North Vietnam, all figure of "Bebob"- our Local Dance are a duplication of Rock&Roll or Jive, such as Change of Places, Change of Hand Behind Back, Comb, Stop and Go....
That why, as my opinion, its name is " Double Swing".
In North Vietnam for Social Dancing, everybody dance a Local Mambo like Rock&Roll. It's very funny.

Thanks for any responses.
HaOanhTranThanh

In the group classes I've taken over the years, we've discussed what the teachers called "off phrase" figures in foxtrot. These are figures that leave you to begin the next figure on count 3 of the music instead of count 1. It's not necessarily *wrong*, per se, but it also doesn't feel completely right to be changing figures in the middle of a bar/measure of music. PantherSon gave the example of Natural Turn (with regular SSS Heel Pull) / Feather Step. This makes the Feather Step start on beat 3 instead of beat 1. And the last S of the Feather is really the first step of the next figure, so the following figure also starts on beat 3. Strictly speaking it's not wrong, but it does feel a bit off to be dancing on 3 instead of 1. Try it if you haven't and you'll see what I mean. This is why figures like the Natural Turn that leave you to start on 3 instead of 1 are considered off phrase. Things just doesn't feel right after them unless you get back to starting figures on 1.

We were told that if you want/need to do one of these off phrase figures, do a second one as soon as you can afterwards to get you back on the usual phrasing. So we didn't adjust the timings because that's not strictly syllabus and would thus have to be considered open work. You can't do that kind of thing in a syllabus competition, so we weren't encouraged to do so. I will not claim this to be complete, but the figures I've noted as off phrase ones in my technique book are: Natural Turn, Change of Direction, Hover Feather, Natural Telemark, Open Telemark Natural Turn to Outside Swivel and Feather Ending. So should one of these (or another I missed) come up, do another one ASAP to get back on time and you'll be OK.

Aside to Sandy -- if the invigilator catches you messing with the timing in a syllabus competition, you can be called on it. Usually you get a warning first and if you get caught a second time you get disqualified (e.g. not called back) or dropped to last place if it's in a final round. If you correct yourself fast enough, it's very unlikely that enough judges will see you off phrase to keep you from getting called back. But the choice is up to you in the end. Dance straight syllabus and chance a judge seeing you off phrase maybe losing a mark or mess with the timing effectively doing open in syllabus and risk the invigilator disqualifying you.

--
James Marshall
marshall@astro.umd.edu
http://www.astro.umd.edu/~marshall

This is a subject I went round and round with my Dance teacher on. I saw the timing in the book and watched the way he lead it was differently. He said the book is technically correct but not to dance it that way becuase it takes you out of phrase. He recommended to either do SQQSQQ or SQQSS(SS) Just make the last slow even longer.

As he says, the judges only get to see you a few seconds each dance. If you are out of phrase, the judge is more likely to think that you are off time, rather then having just lead a correct natural. He also points out that half of the judges will be Latin and will be even less likely to really understand why your out of phrase.

Just my two sense.

Sandy

SQQSSS is correct for International style,
however, the impetus turn which begins with
the first 3 steps of the natural, finishes
SQQ followed by a S.

I'm not sure if I have seen the particular tape you refer to but most of Peggy Spencer's tapes are aimed at beginner dancers so she usually teaches a simpler foxtrot. This is known by several names, rhythm, social, crush, nightclub etc, and I believe is similar to American bronze level. It is not the IS style slow foxtrot.

So both are correct!

Howard

As far as I know, only Samba and Paso Doble are required timing in phrases. But, I also agree with Sandy's teacher's point of view. Let's break through:
- SQQ(1234): Natural Turn action
- Now, the Heel Pull. If SSS (1234 12), "out of phrase", right? And SS (1234) or SSSS (1234 1234) is OK, right?

In my opinion, the technique in ISTD's book is for teacher, very basic and correct things. But in competitions, no couple will use syllabus figures, all they dance are complex variation.

So, I will stand in the middle of ISTD's technique and Sandy's teacher. You will find that there are many Follows for Natural Turn, and the "phare" will depends on which Follow you choose. If you dance a Feather after Natural Turn, timing will be:
- SQQ (1234): Natural Turn action
- SSS (1234 12): Heel Pull
- SQQS (34 1234): Feather
See, it's hard to say the amalgamation is out of phrase or not.

Or I will recommend the "better". Follow the Natural Turn by a Reverse figure. Take the Reverse Turn:
- SQQ (1234): Natural Turn action
- SS (1234): Heel Pull, the 3rd S will be the 1st step of Reverse Turn below
- SQQ (1234): Reverse Turn action
This will be "more correct", right?

Best regards,
MSN