I have serious problems with Leading. I didn
't take formal ballroom training. I just attending some group "social not standard"lesson for 1 year more.
Because my teachers didn't train us leading and following. They just told "not taught" us a little bit, everytime my female paterner said that" she didn't feel comfortable and didn't know what was the next step I wanted to lead".
My teachers always said "practice makes perfect" when everytime I asked , but frankly, I didn't know what I shoud practice?, all they show were just steps, not frame , connection, weight, balnance and other dancing element we should know. I knewn this problem was because I read many information from internet and books.

To be brifly, I remembered "many steps" of basics and variations very well, but I didn't know how to dance with my partner well, and how to lead her! I can show and dance myself, and talk to other how to "step on steps" with count. But this is very ironical result, because ballroom isn't solo show, right?

by now, all I have do was asked other people, but it's a pitty that I didn't know a standanrd ballroomder but all of socail dancer. They(even a good leader who ladies called) almost didn't know how to describe what is leading.

Once, I asked someone on internet about my problem and I wrote down my situation , a good man replied that:
[As your description, you didn't maintain your "upper weight", so that lady could not feel your leading, and should extend your arms, stablized your frame.]
I know what he said, but I just didn't know how to make it, and I've read this phrase "upper weight", but I didn't know it meaning, and how to establish, feel maintain it. can someone teacher me, thanks.

And I found a very interesting thing and nobody could me including my teachers(maybe they didn't like to tell me the key point) by now.
that is:
1)when lady danced with teacher, she felt the upper body of teachers were very "stable". When dancing Waltz or V W, she even felt theacher was "rising" her, and she didn't need to know what is next step or which feet she should step first. On other word, it seems teacher "taking" her to dance, but also felt comfortable and easy whether just walk straightly or taked turn. But my teacher just contacted her with two arm without body conatacting. On the other hand, I "made" her feel uncomfortable and even couldn't walking or moving.It's more serious in V Waltz, cause we couldn't turn enough turn amount.

2) when she danced Jive or Gitterbug or Waltz with teacher, she could feel the rthyme of dancing, rise and fall, jumping or hoping. That made her could enjoy dancing and know which foot she should step, so she can follow well, do not "miss beats"! That's very wonderful, As I know many skiller standard dancer can do it. Of course she also felt teachers rising her when steped the "rising or jumpping" step.

But she didn't know what's happend to her, which action teachers taked. It's a mystries thing to me rightnow.
When I ask my teachers of this two qestions, they gave me the same answer "dancing more".
Well, My godness, I am just doing things right, not doing the right!!
maybe some good people here can tell me.
what's happen to me, and how can I reach this goal like my teacher do.

John in Taiwan

In all sway dances , slowwalt, slowfox, viennewalt, quickstep, all leading is done with the hip !! You need very soft knees and hip.

If you leed with upper body the lady feels herself unconfortable.

In Tango leading is done with hip and the right thigh. (better dancer only use the right thigh)

difficult topic.

Hi, John:

I think you should start taking some private lessons and concentrate on learning the lead. The private lessons in Taiwan do not cost as much as they do in the U.S.($60.00 an hour). When I visited Taiwan in 1995, I took 30 half an hour lessons in Shilin at a studio of Mr. Lu Hon-Lin who was placed first in professional class A competition,1994. I lessoned with his professional partner Hwang Pei-Jun at roughly $12.00 for half an hour. This was done by purchasing lesson cards of 10 half-an-hour for NT$3000 (US$120.00). Most of time I did 2-3 lessons in one afternoon.

My wife, my son ( who is a junior competitor ) and I had visited a ballroom near old Taichung city park in 1997. We had a real good time there. Many great ballroom dancers were observed in that ballroom in an afternoon's social.

Regards,

Keh, Taiwanese in U.S. for 31 years.

Here are 8 fundamental ideas I consider vital to good leading/following in Standard ballroom (international style):

1. CORRECT POSTURE AND FRAME (These have already been mentioned, here's more): Frame and poise must be maintained throughout the motion. The frame must not distort, break and bend giving false leads because there is too much “background noise”. To illustrate my point, you cannot lead the lady to do something by pushing with your right arm in isolation with the rest of your frame, neither can you simply or suddenly jut out a foot and expect the lady to follow the direction of the movement or the length of the stride. Neither must you maintain an unnatural rigidity telling your partner absolutely nothing. It does not look good either . One must dynamically shape throughout the entire frame each part influenced by the next to create the “optimal movement” (in terms of “higher” concepts of length of stride, softness, flight, balance, musical expression and the general character of the dance). This will communicate your movement to your partner.

2. YOUR RELATIVE POSITIONS TO EACH OTHER IN THE HOLD: You need to be correctly aligned to each other. Keep “left” with lady on your “right” (You've probably heard about this before. I will not go into this in detail). Also, never turn your centres away from each other. Keep your centres towards each other throughout the motion (even in promenade and fallaway positions). Don't take this too literally. It does not mean that your belly button is in physical contact with your partners belly button at all times .

3. YOUR WEIGHT CONNECTION WITH YOUR PARTNER (Also, already been mentioned so I won't go into detail): Keep your areas of contact as broad and wide as possible without affecting your poise. Notice I say “areas” and not “points” of contact (often the actual point within the area will vary). Also, not too much or too little tension. You don't want to hang on each other. Give your partner the freedom to dance but you need just enough tension at the points feel each others centre of weight.

4. DANCE YOUR CENTRE OF WEIGHT: And not your feet. You will constantly hear people tell you how important neat feet are. Figures are taught with the emphasis on foot positions and the feet. It's no wonder that people end up “dancing their feet” and nothing else. Your feet are there to collect your weight. Do not initiate progressive movement, choose direction, rotational movement, swing, turn, sway, rise and fall with your feet. Dance your centre of weight and your feet will do what they have to do. Once you understand how your weight dances you can tidy up your feet and polish the figure off.

5. PROACTIVELY TAKE OR CREATE SHAPE THROUGH YOUR ENTIRE FRAME: Allow the shape to originate at your centre of weight and spreading outwards to your extremeties. Shape your partner through the movement in a manner that allows her the space to dance naturally, effortlessly and on balance. You also need to shape her to create “space” for yourself. I say “proactive” because you cannot suddenly create a shape out of “nothing”. It needs to unfold throughout the movement in a subtle manner. (The above concept encompasses the correct use of ideas like CBM, shoulder leads, sways, etc. as integral parts of wholestic movements)

6. CORRECT USE OF YOUR STANDING LEG AND YOUR SWINGING LEG (I discussed the correct technique in a prior thread, check the posts): This allows you to “lead” your partner backwards instead of “pushing” her backwards. The lady often has an enormous force on her to move backwards affecting her quality of movement. Also she must not “pull” the man backwards.

7. DON'T GET RELIGIOUS ABOUT LEADING OR FOLLOWING WITH A PARTICULAR PART OF THE FRAME: I've heard about how leading with the hips is the only way while other advocate arm leads as the best. I've been lead astray many, many times by these rigid ideas . Basically, dance your frame correctly (points 1-6) while maintaining your poise and areas of contacts. As the figure unfolds different contact areas in the frame will pass on information about the movement. Tension will build and subside at the areas of contact as you and your partner act and react throughout the movement. Remember to keep the "channels open" or the contact areas available for communication.

8.COMPLETENESS, CONTINUOUSNESS & WHOLENESS OF MOVEMENT: To lead a figure optimally you need to dance a figure as a complete, continuous and whole action and not as a series of distinct foot positions, swings, CBM, sways and turns disjointed and disconnected.

Regards,
Len

(I've forgotten my password, so I've signed on as a guest).

From the ladies point of view...I cannot stress enough how important it is to have a good frame. This cuts both ways, your lady must have a good frame as well! In the smooth and standard dances I agree with what has been said in earlier posts. They mentioned staying "over your feet"..do you step on your lady a lot? Consider the dynamics of the partner position. Since she should not look down, she should _feel_ your step first through your torso. In other words, if you move only the foot then you will surely step on her because she will not have enough warning to move. Are you dancing in body contact? Your body must go with the foot movement which then allows the lady to feel which foot and which direction etc.
Enough of that...Blair's link probably goes over it better than I can. My only advice would be to find an agreeable woman, who knows the same patterns as you do, and start to practice specifically on leading and following. Try different things and see how they effect her follow...it is not the most practical way to learn, but it seems possible. It is amazing to me that they are leaving you without teaching any leading skills! You are right in thinking that they are central to the entire concept of ballroom dancing. Best of luck to you!

Hi, John:

Leading is a skill very difficult for teachers to teach someone. Some men born with better natural instinct as how to lead in ballroom dances. That is not to say that for those who have less natural ability will never master the art of leading. Though practices the leading skill will gradually improve and that is why your teacher had told you to "practice and practice".

A couple of pointers that might help you. Some men can not lead correctly simply because they do not have a proper solid dance frame. A sound upper dance frame means your right arm behind the lady's back and the connection of your left hand and lady's right need to be solid and square. From the top of your head through neck, and thoracic spine should be always in line. And don't forget to have your chest up and chin down as the sargent told you to do in the millitary service.

Secondly, whenever your take a step forward or back your upper body should immidiately advance to that point. I have seen many bad leaders or newer dancers who would leave they bodies behind their steps and that surely could leave the lady ponder on their following action.

Hope other dancers will contribute more ideas.

Regards,

Keh Gough