I am getting 2 different versions from 2 different studios of "correct" progressive movement in I-FT. Using a feather as example here they are:

Version 1) Prep on (4), step (contacting floor, RF) on 1 & 2 (S), then the usual 2 quicks OP on 3 & 4.

Version 2) Prep on (4), collect RF to LF on (1), then hit floor with RF on (2) (essentially making the actual step itself - meaning contact with the floor - a Q in duration?), then the usual 2 quicks as above.

Hope clearly described - who is correct? I understand the need for collection in movement, but suspect V. #2 above is overdoing it quite a bit. (?) Please unconfuse me before I hose up more muscle memory .

Try this site for a Sinkenson video: http://www.dancevision.com/d_wd.cfm

I tried to retrieve the 12/17/99 post which was suggested by pzafian, but we can only go back to July 2000???
katy

Johnathan, thank you, thank you, thank you! You have quite a gift for accurate verbal expression of matters not always easily reduceable to writing or intellectualizing. This movement is starting to make more sense to me as I begin to conceive dancing more in terms of my whole body movement & travel, such as the falling & reaching movement of long steps, and less in terms of just leg & foot movement. Just maybe, if I can find the right coach to work with, I'll have it down in muscle memory after half a year of hard work. Then maybe I can learn how to shape it right.

For sake of interest & lack of other guidance at the moment, I'm trying to correctly apply this wisdom to my exit from a COD & NT 4-6 (i.e., moves that have 3 S's preceeding another S), without misteaching myself too badly in advance. I find I'm exiting them with varying timings & screwing them up, thus turning my following feather into some kind of a featherduster. Thank God for kind practice partners who don't know better & suffer my efforts to lead this stuff...

David, any suggested source of the video, if not inconvenient?

Pete, thanks for the reference, I'll try to retrieve the post.

And everyone, thanks for graciously ignoring my other off-topic rant.

Frank:

If you'd like to read another wonderfully helpful explanation given out by Jonathon concerning the Int Foxtrot S-Q-Q movement, read the posting/reply in this group from 12-17-1999 entitled "International Foxtrot" posted by me, Pete Zafian. I found his reply to really be helpful.

Pete

As usual Jonathan came through with an excellent explaination. He is totally correct in that one doesn't step on the two. I think of it that way, but I don't teach though I have been at it for 10 years. It is one of those things that I do but don't always understand the details.
I was referring to getting a video tape of Sinkenson dancing a foxtrot, no book in the world can fully explain how to dance it.

Frank,

It looks like we posted messages at nearly the same time, so you will find my reply below yours.

Sincerely,
Jonathan

Frank, number two timing is the timing the top dancers use in Foxtrot. The slow is always (almost always) a gathering followed by a quick. Get a copy of Sinkenson dancing the foxtrot and you will see it much clearer. Number one timing is on time and is still correct, just remember, sometime in the future if not now, you will have to change to the second timing. I call it dancing on the two, it is the timing that gives international foxtrot the smooth, floating feel and look. My experience was that it was hell to master but once I was comfortable with it, I went off time less often. Good luck, you are in good company, trying to master the foxtrot. I am certain that Jonathan will have a much better explaination than this.

Katy:

When you first enter the Ballroom Dance Discussion group, you'll want to choose "Show topics from the last year" in the upper right section of the screen. Once you press GO, scroll down to the bottom of that page and choose "Page 3." That should take you back far enough.

Pete

Frank,

Let me help shed some light on the concept of a "Slow" in Foxtrot, and you will have a better understanding of how these different interpretations come to be.

To truly be a "Slow", a step must take a total of two beats to complete. This in itself demands a high degree of skill, because it requires that you have the ability to sustain support from your standing leg as you move away from it long enough to extend your stride through a period of time. Most novice dancers do not have this ability, taking only a fraction of a moment to move from one step to the next. When danced this way, a Slow is not a Slow at all, but a Quick followed by a pause.

The danger in telling students to "Step on 2" is that if they do not yet have the ability to extend their walk through two beats, they end up pausing on 1 and stepping on two. In other words, they're still dancing a quick, but now they're dancing the quick on 2 instead of on 1. This is even more off-time than simply dancing straight down on 1.

The correct method of dancing a "Slow" in Foxtrot is to begin the extension of the stride at the very beginning of beat 1, so that the moving foot is actually in motion throughout the entire beat 1. the heel of this foot will strike on the downbeat of two, and the collection of weight is complete by the "&" of 2.

Note that in order to begin the extension of the stride at the beginning of 1, you need to already have your moving foot collected underneath your body. This means that version #2 that you gave is actually late. If you wait to collect the moving foot from the previous step until after 1 has begun, again you are leaving yourself only one beat to execute your Slow, which means that it's not really a Slow at all... it's just a delayed Quick.

So to summarize, both versions you gave are not exactly correct, because both versions are actually Quicks, not Slows (at least, not by Foxtrot definition). One is early, and the other is late. Just remember... In order to dance a really good Slow, you need to be moving *through* 1,2, not down *on to* 1 or 2. And also remember that you shouldn't delay your 2nd quick of the previous measure so much that you are finishing your 2nd Quick when you should be beginning your Slow.

Foxtrot timing can be a bit tricky to get the feel of, but the concept itself is really quite simple. I hope I've managed to explain it in a way that makes it seem simple to you, at least on an intellectual level. Getting the body to feel it may take a little bit more time.

Good luck!

Sincerely,
Jonathan Atkinson