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| CBMP is a Position and doesn't have a turning movement. I think it's more accurate to say that CBMP doesn't necessarily cause or result from a turning movement, however, it can. The concepts of CBM (a type of movement) and CBMP (a position of the feet) are neither mutually inclusive nor exclusive. Either can occur with or without the other. For example: CBM without CBMP: The first step of most turning figures (eg Left Box, Right Box, etc). CBMP without CBM: Any outside partner step without rotation (eg Forward or Back Lock, Feather/Continuity Finish, etc). Both occurring together: Any outside partner step commencing rotation (eg Natural Turn commenced O.P., Running Finish, etc). Neither occurring: Take your pick of any sideways or diagonal movement. So if a step description mentions CBMP, don't feel like you have to struggle to get your feet super-crossed. Usually a figure description will specify how far one foot should cross over the path of the other in CBMP. "Forward in CBMP" means to step directly along the path, while "Forward & Across in CBMP" means to step across the path (but still in a forward direction). This is an important distinction, and should be noted when reading technical charts. Regards, Jonathan |
| Out of twelve replies only SocialDancer answered tara's question...CBMP(Contra body movement position), actually I got a great lesson from the responses... THANK YOU!!!  |
| Perhaps all the original poster needed was the expansion of the acronym. However, I don't think so. As ?? notes just saying what an abbreviation stands for isn't of much help, especially if the person is a beginner and still learning a lot of the basics. I bet that if no one else replied with some explanations about what CBMP is and how to do it, the original posted would have followed up with "OK, now I know what CBMP stands for. How do you do it?" So the additional replies by myself and others were almost certainly made in anticipation of that follow up question. We figured it was coming anyway, so we decided to answer it before it was asked. There's really no problem with that. And if it was more information that the original posted needed or could use at the moment, he/she can always file it away for future reference. Years ago I remember taking a dance workshop that I felt was too advanced for me (after it had already started that is) and a fellow club member gave me that advice. It's a rare opportunity to learn from a teacher I normally wouldn't, so I might as well stay, do the best I can now, and file away what I can't use now for future use. Same idea. The additional information is almost always helpful -- if you can't use it all right now, try to store it away and bring it up again later when you can make better use of it. -- James Marshall marshall@astro.umd.edu http://www.astro.umd.edu/~marshall |
| SocialDancer is probably right that there's a dictionary on this site that explains it. You'll also see CBM, same acronym just without the "Position" part. It's not always clear what the difference is, so I'll try to help a bit in case you need it. As I recall, you can use the acronyms to tell you the main difference between the two: CBM is a movement while CBMP is a position. CBM is typically done by stepping with one leg and moving the opposite side of the body with it (e.g., fwd LF, RS moves fwd). The step is normal, you move your side with it. CBMP is usually achieved by stepping one foot somewhat across the line of the other which will pretty naturally end up bringing the opposite side of the body forward. You end up with a similar end effect, but obtained in different ways. Tango's got CBMP all over the place because of the way standard tango walks are done. If I've accidentally made a mistake here, I'm sure someone can correct it, but I believe this is a pretty good way of distinguishing between CBM and CBMP. -- James Marshall marshall@astro.umd.edu http://www.astro.umd.edu/~marshall |
| Of course it's clear the questioner is a relative newcomer to the technicalities of ballroom - that's especially why just stating what the acronym stands for doesn't help at all (SocialDancer did refer to other info too, yes).
I took exception to your saying that the other responses didn't answer the question, when they fleshed it out - and you can't have 12 people saying what it stands for!
I am a pretty good lead but a better follower - I'm female too. But that doesn't mean that I don't think it's necessary to explain a term rather than throw out a phrase that means just as little as the acronym itself. |
| Originally posted by ??:
Yes, so the first answer stated what "CBMP" stands for.
That doesn't help the person who asks the question! If they don't know what it stands for, they don't know what it is, how to do it, and how to use it! The posts that followed went into that actually useful information, and you trashed them!
And then you try to hide behind your gender or intimate that you're being bashed because of your gender - neither! You were trashing people giving extremely helpful information, and shouldn't get away with that! Dear ??, Statistically men and women read the same words and somehow they perceive them differently, that's what I meant by saying I Am a woman… If you read Tara's question once more you will see that this person is a beginner, she or he was in need of simple info… I did not mean to bash the incredible information all the very knowledgeable dancers shared with Tara, but perhaps all Tara needed was the simple answer. I'm not trying to not Finnish what I started. From my point of view sense I too was a beginner at one time and was a little reluctant to ask dumb questions (of a teacher that I later found was a student) and seem stupid in front of others that seemed to get the concept from the very first try, I simply put myself in this persons shoes… I wonder what Tara thinks of this argument. I understand you being angry with me, I'm sure you must be an excellent dancer, but one of those who is very impatient with your dancing partner. I have nothing to hide all to gain especially with the wealth of info. That has been shared at this forum; and if you are a great lead lets dance sometime. Lia |
| Dronak: First, what a non-dancer does is irrelevant. Who cares if they do it wrong, they're not dancing and that's what we're discussing. In this instance we were answering a question from someone "trying to learn the dances", a non-dancer perhaps, who wanted to know what CBMP is. Dronak: I'm not sure what would happen if you tried to put the wrong side fwd like that while dancing with a partner It's only the wrong side fwd if the step is intended to be in CBMP. Otherwise the partner should match the side lead. I don't think the example of stepping in CBMP from a square position occurs anywhere, and I would contend that it cannot without the additional use of CBM. The point I was trying to make is that placing one foot in line with the other is not sufficient to produce CBMP. If the opposite side moves towards the moving foot then CBM has also been applied. I cannot think of an instance where a step is made in CBMP (no CBM) without the opposite side _already_ being forward (or backward). Can anyone else? Dronak: OK, a total beginner may not get it right away. But he/she will be taught how to do it correctly from the start since it's a basic technique. Oh If only! I'm afraid there are many places around here where any mention of CBMP is left pretty late. Usually after most beginners have left in the belief that they now know enough to get themselves around the floor. Dronak: the actual phrase was "pretty naturally". I specifically avoided saying "naturally" alone to imply that there's a chance it won't be completely natural for everyone, all of the time. Sorry, my oversimplification. |
| Originally posted by ??:
Yes, so the first answer stated what "CBMP" stands for.
That doesn't help the person who asks the question! If they don't know what it stands for, they don't know what it is, how to do it, and how to use it! The posts that followed went into that actually useful information, and you trashed them!
And then you try to hide behind your gender or intimate that you're being bashed because of your gender - neither! You were trashing people giving extremely helpful information, and shouldn't get away with that! |
| fallaway,
exactly
my post should have said:
CBM John Wayne walking (but not too extreme)
i remember when i started cbm made no sense to me as various teachers tried to explain it
i think the john wayne image helps conceptualize the opposite hip idea for a beginner only (then again my wife says i dance like that anyway)
sorry 'bout the lack of punctuation today. a young girl ran a stop sign on us last night. she only just got her licence and told the police she was looking on the floor under the dashboard for her purse as she went through the intersection. we're banged up (sprains/bruises, etc.) but otherwise ok. i'm a a one hand one finger typer for a few days. our new car is a write-off of course.
ob |
| operabob, be careful with that. If people really walk like John Wayne you're going to get a host of other problems... slouching, breaking sides, etc. Actually CBM happens when ANYBODY walks. That's why you swing opposite arm to leg.
If you've go them doing a cross-legged swagger, that's fine to have them stop and notice that their feet are tracking across each other.
I do think it's best to explain the concept and how to execute it properly in ballroom going backwards and forwards. Models place their feet in CBMP... but straight-legged, so that's not a good model (haha!). So it's fine to use something to illustrate, as long as the student understands what part of it is analogous, and the non-analogous part don't start weird habits.
(my teacher told me to waltz like John Wayne!) |
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