Hi, Dear Steve,

Thank you very much for your answer. I think the contra check followed by pivot to right is a very good suggestion.

Rumbalei

Hi, Dear Len,

Thanks again for your nice suggestion. I will try them.

If you dont mind, I would like to ask after I dance a contra check both in waltz or in foxtrot, I would like to make something like the fleckeral in V.W. turning to right, my question is when I do this, do I need to put my right foot before my left foot when they are together, the same question in V.W.

Best regards,

rumbalei

Hi Rumbalei

There are so many possibilities. I will list a few of the "easier" follows:

Natural Pivots:
1.Man's forward step is on a more relaxed knee while leading lady into "Promenade Position" with a "Broken Sway" (instead of commencing another pivot).
2.Man dances an ?Open Impetus Turn? after the 2nd quarter turn instead of continuing into another pivot.
3.Man underturns 2nd quarter turn and dances a ?Turning Lock?.
4.Man dances a ?Turning Locking To The Right? after the 2nd quarter turn instead of continuing into another pivot.

Reverse Pivots:
1.Man dances a ?Telemark? instead of another pivot.
2.Man dances a ?Double Reverse Spin? instead of another pivot.

Happy Dancing,
Len.

Hi.

Dear Len,

Thank you so much for your clear explanation, I find it very helpful but still need more practice with my partner. by the way, could you suggest me some steps to follow this spin and pivot turn, both right turn and left turn.

best regards,

Hi there

Glad to help you. I will break it down a little more for you:

Lets assume that you want your pivots as a couple to progress down the line of dance and that you are dancing natural pivots:

1.Your forward step is down line of dance with a strong CBM action. This will swing your left shoulder thru as you step forward on the right foot and commence the turn to the right.
(Note that while you are in the pivots your forward step will not commence facing line of dance. You will commence facing center coming out of the pivot made as you collected your weight and completed the previous ?backstep?. (See point (4) where you are in the role of the partner)

2.You would have made a quarter of a turn as you collect your weight over the right foot.
Your partner would also have made a quarter of a turn as he/she collects their weight over the left foot and completes their "backstep".
This turn would have been made with a strong foot swivel action on the balls of your feet as you and your partner collect your weights over your respective feet.

3.Your left foot will continue to swing thru (down the line of dance and slightly across), making it?s transition from a forward step to a ?backstep?. This will happen because you are continuing to pivot at the center established by the right foot. See point (7) for the nature of this continuing pivot.

4.You will almost complete the next quarter of the turn halfway thru the ?backstep? when your weight is midway between your right foot and your left foot. Note that your partner will perform point (1) as you perform point (4) and will also almost complete a quarter of a turn to the right, halfway thru their forward step. (However the CBMP position of the leg gives it a more ?pivoting? character because the foot is already held forward and less of a forward thrust is required). At this halfway point of your ?backstep? you are backing line of dance and your partner is facing down line of dance at his/ her halfway point of their forward step. You will continue at point (2) where you are in the role of the partner.

5.In point (4) I say that you will ?almost complete? the turn because you will be out by a few degrees in the body. That?s okay, it should not be a problem. In fact don?t try to force it. You are going to use it to your advantage. Your partner is going to have their left side slightly back and you are going to have your right side slightly forward relative to the line of dance. Your partner is going to swing the left side thru (you the opposite) with strong CBM and easily recover those few lost degrees (in the body) of the previous pivot on the first quarter turn of the new pivot.

6.Even though you don?t quite complete the second quarter of the turn in the body, you must get your feet positioned correctly because it?s going to stay at that spot for the next pivot. You need to get it down the line of dance but also slightly across the line of dance. In this way you will allow your partner the space coming thru on the forward step.

7.You and your partner will find that you get a strong foot swivel action (on the balls) on the first quarter of the turns but you will find it more difficult to continue this foot swivel action thru the second quarter of the turn. Don?t try to force it. The pivot action thru the second quarter is more of a ?body? action.

Try this out. Please let me know what worked and what did not. I?m very interested to know.

Regards,
Len.

It sounds to me like what Rumbalei wants to do out of the Contra Check, "like a Fleckerl", is known as a Standing Spin. Actually, it's quite a bit easier than a Fleckerl because the foot positions and amounts of turn aren't quite so precise.

You can dance a standing spin out of a Contra Check by replacing weight to RF, slipping side & slightly back into almost a natural pivoting action, but then forward on RF outside partner with a good amount of speed and rotation. Both man and lady will then run forward OP.

Anybody is welcome to add technical tips to that. I'm just here for the basic description tonight.

Regards,
Jonathan

Dear Len,

Thanks so much for your explanation.

However, I still would like to know a little bit more about the 2nd point of your reply:

should I make underturn (less then 180o) when my right foot spins to right down LOD and my left foot make overturn with pivot action to make my right foot forward exceptly facing LOD?

I dont know if I can make my question clear to you?

Best regards,

My partner and I have experienced similar problems and this is what we found:

1.One is that the person dancing forward does not pivot enough after stepping forward. So the following ?backstep? tends to be more of a forward step than a backstep. I should qualify what I just said by stating that I don?t believe that this ?backstep? is a true backstep either, neither is it a side step, it is a step in continuous transition from forward to back. If the step after the forward step is danced too forward then insufficient turn has been make. If it is danced too backward then the forward momentum and flow of the following pivots is hampered.

(I will refer to this step as the ?backward? step for the sake of this discussion).

2. If your pivots as a couple are progressing down the line of dance then your ?backstep? as an individual will also progress down the line of dance with a slight loss of alignment to the "side". This creates space for your partner and will get him/her on your right side as they dance forward. If you keep your ?backstep? strictly down line of dance, your partner is going to end to the left of you on their forward step and feel obstructed by you. You are not going to make the 180 degrees.

3.Basically I found that keeping your partner more on your right side for natural turns and pivots and to the left for reverse turns and pivots gives you and your partner more freedom and space. However I don?t believe that it should be overdone.

4.I don?t believe that there is any strong rise and fall action as found in the natural / reverse turns of the Waltz. This could impede the speed and progression of the pivots. As far as body rise goes, there should be a slight relaxation of the knees on each step to create a smooth, soft and flowing feeling. You don?t need much foot rise and fall either but you need to take your toes and heels correctly.

5.The balance problem seems to be caused by the couple obstructing one another and the body momentums not complementing one another. In other words they affect each others balance rather than being individually unbalanced. Both need to turn the right amount at the right time. There is a natural tendency to want to turn sooner when one is on the inside of the turn and later when one is on the outside of the turn. Of course both extremes work against being able to turn optimally as a couple.

6. As far as improving your individual balance holding your gaze at fixed points while turning can help. However you need to combine this ?spotting? with balancing your head weight, the momentum of the turns and not unbalancing your partner.

I hope this helps. I would be interested in knowing what other dancers thoughts are on these opinions.

Regards,
Len.

Hi, Dear Len,

Thank you very much for your answer. What I intent to ask is not (big top), coz it is too difficult for me. I just want to dance something that looks like natural fleckerel.

Rumbalei

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly. The figure you are talking about is not the Fleckerel but something that looks like the Natural Fleckerel? If you are talking about something like the "Big Top" (turning to the right) then I would tentatively answer "yes" at this point as I do not have enough experience dancing these type of steps at this point.

Sorry that I cannot help much on this one. However I suggest you post your question as a separate thread under a more appropriate subject title (something like "Big Top turning to the right") and perhaps someone with more knowledge and insight may be able to help you.

Regards,
Len.