So we now come to the question. Who gets out of whose way. With CBMP for both parties. One or the other must be allowed to take the straightish line. And that is the person going forward. The person going backwards clears a space, but still with body contact. In my opinion the best learning excercise is the Feather Step taken diagonal to the centre with NFR on step one for the lady. The change in position in relation to the floor is not a change in body position in relation to each other. Ir remains the same but will have an appearance of the person going forward passing their partner. And then coming back again after step three is completed with CBMP, and then we move into a neutral position, or if you like to call it , a balanced position, or as we were when we started. There has been no loss of contact and we are ready for a Reverse Movement. A tennis ball with a line drawn across the middle is still a good model to use if somebody does not understand. Rotate it slightly and we have a change of position in relation to the floor. An overhead camera shot would serve the same purpose. No wonder Alex Moore in the Technique book never went into this. It would have resulted in the book being as thick as a dozen or so. Gone With the Wind's. He does mentioned that the book is only to be used as a guide.

"So we now come to the question. Who gets out of whose way. With CBMP for both parties."

Nobody.

Outside partner is not about getting out of your partner's way, it is about configuring both bodies in the CBMP-type shape.

As long as you insist on thinking about a movement of one body relative to the other, you will never understand this concept.
"The change in position in relation to the floor is not a change in body position in relation to each other. Ir remains the same but will have an appearance of the person going forward passing their partner."

Not if it's done right it won't.

It is a change of body shape. It is NOT a rotation of both bodies around a common center while maintaing a fixed shape/configuration.

"A tennis ball with a line drawn across the middle is still a good model to use if somebody does not understand."

This only proves that you do not even begin to understand the concpt. You must do what the tennis ball cannot: CHANGE THE SHAPE AND CONFIGURATION OF YOUR OWN BODY.

That will enable you to relate to your partner in a different way, without havin to move relative to your partner.

"No wonder Alex Moore in the Technique book never went into this."

He never mentioned it for the simple reason that IT's NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN.

Is this so hard to understand. I face the centre. my left shoulder is at nine on a clock face . My right is at three. If I move my left shoulder to eleven. Where is my right shoulder on the clock face.
Maybe you should go back to your drawing board. If two people are moving on a straight line one going forward the other going back and they both maintane a straight line one will never get past the other. They will never turn and will disapeare into infinity still travelling on their two unforgiving rails.
The moral behind this is the person going backwards, unless we are going straight like a Three step must clear a path for the other. If they don' t you go straight on never turning. Let us not forget we have four feet here on four tracks. If I am to turn or curve I must move over my partners two tracks. If she doesn' t clear a path by moving off line I will never turn or curve. If you are still in doubt sprinkle some talc on the floor and do your Feather. what do you see. Better still go to the beach and do the same in sand. If I were you with your way of thinking I would start with my back towards the ocean otherwise you will may head out to sea. Seriously take a look at the tracks.

"Is this so hard to understand. I face the centre. my left shoulder is at nine on a clock face . My right is at three. If I move my left shoulder to eleven. Where is my right shoulder on the clock face."

That's very easy to understand. The problem is that it has no relevance to passing your partner. Time and time again, your describe the partnership rotating around a common center to get to outside partenr position. What you FAIL TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT THIS IS NOT HOW OUTSIDE PARTNER POSITON WORKS.

"If two people are moving on a straight line one going forward the other going back and they both maintane a straight line one will never get past the other."

Exactly what I have been saying. There is no getting out of the way, and in non-turning figures there is no passing each other.

Outside partner position involves changing the individual SHAPE of both bodies. It does not involve passing each other or curving out of the way.

Are you saying a Feather Step does not curve. You haven't paid a visit to the beach yet. Or taken a look at the charts. On the second step the man is preparing to step outside the lady. This doesn't mean he moves to his left. He takes the straight line on step one and starts to curve to the right on step two. If you put the two charts side by side and tell me that the lady has not moved to her left side.

"Are you saying a Feather Step does not curve."

The direction of progression will alter towards clockwise on step three, but there is no swinging past the partner, as this curve is one of track only.

There is zero change of the ORIENATIAON or ALIGNMENT after the CBM of step 1. After step one, no further body rotation will occur until the CBM or step 4 or a following figure.

"You haven't paid a visit to the beach yet. Or taken a look at the charts."

If you looked at the footprint chart and the explanation of where the rotation is and isnb't in the feather, you'd see exactly what I'm talking about. The rotation occurs only in step 1 (and step 4), but the curve occurs on step 3, WITHOUT ANY COINCIDENT ROTATION OF THE BODY.

Remember that in the book it says the figure HAS NO TURN. The track curves... but without turn. When you've come to understand how that is possible, you wil l have finally started to learn something about the mechanics of dancing.

"On the second step the man is preparing to step outside the lady. This doesn't mean he moves to his left. He takes the straight line on step one and starts to curve to the right on step two."

NOPE - THERE IS NO CURVE ON STEP TWO.. CHECK YOUR BOOK AGAIN, IT IS WRITTEN OUT THERE QUITE EXPLICITY: "-" under amount of turn.

":If you put the two charts side by side and tell me that the lady has not moved to her left side."

She will move to her left on step 3, but without any coincident rotation.

"":If you put the two charts side by side and tell me that the lady has not moved to her left side."

She will move to her left on step 3, but without any coincident rotation."

And because I know you well enough that you will overlook this, be sure to note in the footprint chart that the man is moving exaclty the same distance to his right as she does so!

In fact, do yourself a favor... photocopy the lady's footprints on a transparency and slide them over the man's... when you do so, you'll discover that NO PASSING OF THE PARTNER HAS OCCURED.

Until you've done so though, kindly do us all a favor and desist from continuing your ignorant nonsense.

I left the best till last. What exactly is John Wood on his tape saying when he said that on the Feather Step the lady moves to the man' s right. And also gives a demonstration of how this is implemented. I know. Once before you said that John Wood was mistaken and didn' t know what he was about. You still haven' t learnt have you. But lets have your answer to the above. It should prove intersting.
John Wood also goes through the dynamics involved in the rotation of the body which is also on the Feather Step second and third step. Plus the return to a balanced neutral position on the count of and. He also at the same time talks about going from a balanced to a balanced position. Not a word mentioned about going from balanced to unbalanced. And nothing about a leading left side into a Reverse Turn. Or have you changed your mind on that one. I have deliberately chosen parts where in the past you have written and been outspoken about. I' l'll just remind you of what you have said in the immediate past. The lady does not move to the man' s right. There is no neutral position after the third step in the Feather. That the left shoulder leads into a Reverse Turn. I' ll throw into that the crazy idea that on the second step of the Reverse we are backing diagonal to the wall. Do you remember when I wrote that we are moving through that and will finish backing the LOD. One day you may thank me for stopping you continuing to live in that world which you have created.

"I left the best till last. What exactly is John Wood on his tape saying when he said that on the Feather Step the lady moves to the man' s right. And also gives a demonstration of how this is implemented. I know. Once before you said that John Wood was mistaken and didn' t know what he was about. You still haven' t learnt have you. But lets have your answer to the above. It should prove intersting."

I'd have to hear and see John Wood himself - from your retelling I can't tell if he is mistaken (unlikely) or if you are misinterpreting him (almost certain).

Nonetheless, every teacher I have worked with - numerous private lessons with a wide variety of world champions engaged in training current champions - has said and done otherwise. There is simply no passing of the partner in a feather step!

"John Wood also goes through the dynamics involved in the rotation of the body which is also on the Feather Step second and third step."

Wrong. The rotation is officially confined to the first step. There might be a slight carryover into the second on some people, but that is a personal deviation from the accpeted technique.

"He also at the same time talks about going from a balanced to a balanced position. Not a word mentioned about going from balanced to unbalanced."

He's a dance teacher not a physics professor. His words accurately describe what he feels, but they are quote WRONG IN TERMS OF PHYSICAL REALITY. Despite the fact that your are off balance most of the time in a dance like foxtrot, you won't have that alarming feeling you think of as being off balance unless you mis-time or mis-aim the transition between balance and imbalance. If you do it right it will feel secure - imbalance in a natural and lifelong habit in walking!

"And nothing about a leading left side into a Reverse Turn. Or have you changed your mind on that one."

No. It's a pretty standard technical point. Take some PRIVATE LESSONS WITH THOSE WHO TRAIN WORLD CHAMPIONS and you will hear about it. You have to stop assumign that the generic points you hear on video lectures are the full story!

"I' l'll just remind you of what you have said in the immediate past. The lady does not move to the man' s right."

Well, she does, but HE DOES TOO.

"There is no neutral position after the third step in the Feather."

There is a neutral position of the body, and a neutral position of the foot, but THEY DO NOT ACTUALLY COINCIDE.

"That the left shoulder leads into a Reverse Turn."

Take some lessons with the worlds best teachers and you will get this drilled into your head... and body. Or you could willifully remain ignorant, hiding out in ignorance with nothing but your precious books and videos as a guide.

"I' ll throw into that the crazy idea that on the second step of the Reverse we are backing diagonal to the wall."

Yeah, that idea is soooo crazy that it's EXACTLY WHAT IS WRITTEN IN YOUR BOOK.

"Do you remember when I wrote that we are moving through that and will finish backing the LOD."

No. Any real teacher (apparently there is a severe shortage of these in whatever hamlet you reside) will tell you that you must keep the body under turned until you begin the next figure.

"One day you may thank me for stopping you continuing to live in that world which you have created."

Quickstep, I live in the real world, a populated by national champions and frequently visited by world champs and those who train them - and me. You live in your own imagination.

One thing at a time now. On the 12th December You said that the body goes first. And the legs catch up.
Quote. There is nothing wrong with having the feet well ahead of the body as long as they do not move too quickly into position. A good general ratio is 2 to 1. That is to say the feet move approximately twice as fast as the body. If you think of trying to stay approximately half way between your feet, and you do not move the foot without the body, you' ll be reasonably correct.
Have you ever taken a look at a sprinter. That body is flying but not the way you have described.
I generaly feel that people who take short strides are suffering from one of a couple problems. 1. The moving foot not getting ahead of the body. 2. Lack of foot pressure from the standing foot. ( That' s you from what you have described ).If you get the feeling of falling from your moving foot, ( does that sound familiar to you ), you have probably not applied enough pressure to the floor to drive yourself forward.
From another source. When stepping forward think of the back foot expanding the front foot like a vice where one part of the jaw remains still. When stepping forward this gives a strong look. Length of step is governed by the back foot. Standing leg is the master. Never swing on a backward step.. Never swing at the same time as partner.
Here is an interesting one. Your bottom swings not your leg. Also think of the leg as a rod on side steps.
One last thing. When we walk we lift our heel from the floor. When we dance we keep contact. There is another of your big Basic mistakes. You should have taken that Bronze Medal Class. In it that is the first thing we learn. Keep in contact with the floor. Do not lift your feet from the floor.
Also there is a neutral position at the end of step 3. where for an instant obviously we are square. As we step forward for the first of the Reverse, for want of a better word there is a dipping of the left shoulder. There is the commencment of your sway on step two.
We have learnt a lot today haven' t we. Thanks to three world class teachers and one writter.