The body rises because the feet ankles and knees make it. It is not often that we get for the person going forward two heel leads one following the other. Somebody will say what about the Three Step. If you are not up with the technique book , this is best left alone. According to the technique book for the man the Three Step starts on the RF and finishes on the RF and the last step on a Feather Step which preceeds the Three Step is a Heel. So we have two Heel leads. On the Three Step the body rises at the end of one, up for two, lower at the end of two. Don' t ask me why it was written that way but never the less there are two heel leads one with rise.
For me I wish they would re write the book . I didn' t look at the latest issue of Alex Moore' s book which is in one of our book shops. It has a very flash out of character picture on the front.
I would have rather you hadn't brought this one up. But you did. So just to prove a point. The reason why body rise is the term used he points out that the feet are part of the body . At the end of the day is it possible to get no rise through the feet and legs if I am to get my heel off the floor at the end of a step. Even more if I am size 12' s. Try it.

"The body rises because the feet ankles and knees make it."

Wrong. In the WALK described in the textbook, there is no recommendation for body rise. When it is done well, the knees absorb the difference in height between being over your foot and being somewhere in between your feet.

"It is not often that we get for the person going forward two heel leads one following the other."

Indeed... that's part of what makes the walking EXERCISE in the book, heel lead after heel lead after heel leed with no trend or change over the series of steps, an EXERCISE and not a dance.

"Somebody will say what about the Three Step. If you are not up with the technique book , this is best left alone."

I belive I already covered that in the other thread... the two heel leads of a three step (IDTA system, or last of feather and first of three in the ISTD system) are drastically different.

"there are two heel leads one with rise."

Yes. And the foot timing differs between them as a result!

Do you understand that yet? Rising steps, falling steps, and flat steps each have different timing in the sequence of foot actions, even though they are all derivatives of the general idea of a "walk"

You've got it wrong about the practise. A heel lead with your RF is the same as you would do into a Natural movement Waltz Foxtrot and Quickstep. A heel lead with the LF is the same as a step into a Reverse movement. So how can one walk behind another walk not be worth the practise. Be sensible and start of with it in mind that they did know what they were writting.
Being that you always come from the male side and have no consideration for the lady. This could make you a male Chauvinist. The lady is the same as the man as far as going backwards with a Slow followed by a Slow as practise. Whilst we are on going backwards . Unless the lady or man reaches all the way back whilst bending their front knee to the front. (the more they bend the further they will go), There is no chance of doing the step the way we see the champions do them. And practise solo every day is the way to go. Short stepping will get you nowhere, except premature lowering

"You've got it wrong about the practise. A heel lead with your RF is the same as you would do into a Natural movement Waltz Foxtrot and Quickstep. A heel lead with the LF is the same as a step into a Reverse movement."

No, it is not!

A heel lead that could be followed by another heel lead is flat, with either no rise at all, or quite minimal rise.

In contrast, all of the examples you cited will feature a MARKED UPSWING - something that must begin well before the end of the step.

THIS CAUSES A MANDATORY CHANGE IN THE EXECUTION OF THE STEP.

You simply cannot claim to be a knowledgeable dancer as long as you continue in ignorance of this!

"Unless the lady or man reaches all the way back whilst bending their front knee to the front."

Actually, the action is much more about sending the BODY backwards than it is about reaching. There is a bending of the knee, yes, but in the actual DANCING version the body must continuously move backwards even as that happens. In the EXERCISE verion, people sometimes practice it with the body stationary over the foot, BUT THAT IS NOT DANCING.

"Short stepping will get you nowhere, except premature lowering"

Short stepping is exactly what you will get if you try to move the foot, without moving the body first!

I thought you would say it sooner or later. I will quote you here.
Actually the action is more about sending the body backwards than it is about reaching. There is a bending of the knee but in the dance version the body must continuously move backwards.
Being that the lady is in front they cannot hike off untill the man is over his standing foot. This slight delay which can be felt but not seen is caused by the knee compressing towards the man which is the front for the person going backwards. Its as simple as ABC. I would suggest if you are going to make statements like the above you first find yourself a tape simular to the one by Anne Lewis with John Wood who goes into this part thoughouly. There is also one by Steven Hanagh former British Champion which also covers this. He calls it premature lowering which causes the lady to straighten the knee and the toe pops up into the air and she falls away from the man and is no longer standing verticle. Previously you have said that both John Wood and Anne Lewis were wrong. So shall we now add Steven to the list. A little trip to The Learn the Dances Feather Step in the Foxtrot on this site might do at this point. Do you know what to look for. Your looking for the lady keeping her front to the man which is exactly opposite to what you wrote up top. The body must continuously move backwards. Is that what you see or do you see the lady maintaining her position untill the man is ready to go. Also look at the lady being moved to the mans right side with the rotation of the body..This is also covered by John Wood on the same tape.

"Being that the lady is in front they cannot hike off untill the man is over his standing foot."

You forget that BOTH are moving across their feet continously. There is no start or stop to this movement - it began before the standing foot was the standing foot, and it will continue past the time when that foot ceases to be the standing foot.

"This slight delay which can be felt but not seen is caused by the knee compressing towards the man which is the front for the person going backwards."

The knee may go forwads, but the body goes backwards at the same time. In fact, the body is probably going backwards enough that the knee only goes substanitally forwards relative to the body - relative to the room, the knee barely moves agains the direction of travel if it even does so at all. Unless of course you make the mistake of letting your body travel pause.

"I would suggest if you are going to make statements like the above you first find yourself a tape simular to the one by Anne Lewis with John Wood who goes into this part thoughouly. There is also one by Steven Hanagh former British Champion which also covers this."

The problem is that at some point you have to go beyond the TEACHING tapes, and look at what actually happens in DANCING. Teaching is full of exercises, but exercises with present different situations than what actually occurs in DANCING. Watch DANCING and you will see continuos movement of the body

"A little trip to The Learn the Dances Feather Step in the Foxtrot on this site might do at this point. Do you know what to look for. Your looking for the lady keeping her front to the man which is exactly opposite to what you wrote up top. The body must continuously move backwards."

Take your own advice: go the feather step in the learning center and tell me EXACTLY WHERE THE BODY TRAVEL PAUSES. Exact second of the quicktime video please.

YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO ANSWER THAT, BECAUSE THERE IS NO_SUCH_PAUSE IN THAT VIDEO. The only time they stop is when they are done dancing at the end!

Time to put up or SHUT UP.

Paragraph three absoltely wrong. Its not even worth discussing untill you' have had a few more lessons. Who on earth told you that one.

"Paragraph three absoltely wrong. Its not even worth discussing untill you' have had a few more lessons. Who on earth told you that one."

Gosh pimpernel, that's pretty funny seeing as how the entirity of paragraph three is quoted from you!

And as for paragraph four, you need only click over to the feather video on this site, where you will see Melissa Atkinson moving continously backwards throughout the feather.

Also take note of the fact that her right knee does not actually compress against the direction of travel! It may move a tiny bit forward relative to the body, but most of what is happening is that the body is projecting backwards away from the knee.

But not falling backwards onto her steps, or he falling forward. And what is moving first. Dare I say the legs.Do you see anybody falling off balance with the feet clear of the deck. or standing on one foot. All of which you have stated on more than one occasion. You appear to be one of those who sees only what they want to see. You could not possibly be wrong could you.
I should have put paragraph four and not three. Everything said remains. Who on earth told you that one. Its not even worth discussing.
Compression of the knee forward. Do you know how to do frame by frame. If you do you will see the knee out the back of the man. Now try to tell me it isn't forward. Even at the very end of clip one. Tell me where the knees of both people are. Are you like that. I dont think so.