Its all in relation to the floor. Lean to the side slightly, feet fairly close with the weight on the LF. Your body is still over your feet if you stand up again. When you lean you have not altered your shape in relation to your head to your feet. Back to the video. on the Wave if you drew a line, when the man is at a full extension, from the rear foot right up through the head and to the ceiling. Where on a clock face would the line stop. It wont be twelve o clock I can assure you. I hope you are learning from this, and other things spoken about like your mistaken belief that the left shoulder leads into a Reverse Turn and the alignment of steps two and three. Where did you say it was ,backing diagnal to the wall so you wrote. As you can see on the video. No left shoulder leading and dead square to backing LOD on two and three. While your at it have a look at Howson on the Feather step two to three and draw a line this time from the front foot to the ceiling and see where it lands, which will put paid to your other silly idea of the body being in front of the front leg.I'm sorry to be so severe with you but you do ask for it on some occasions don't you.

"Back to the video. on the Wave if you drew a line, when the man is at a full extension, from the rear foot right up through the head and to the ceiling. Where on a clock face would the line stop."

Meaningless, as the line through the leg and body when it is "at full extension" will obviously not be straight!

"I hope you are learning from this, and other things spoken about like your mistaken belief that the left shoulder leads into a Reverse Turn"

If you ever get a chance to take a private lesson with a world class teacher, you just might learn the truth about that - one school of thought holds that there is NO CBM in a reverse turn, the other holds that there is but it happens in the lower body first, and only later in the upper. If you never get a chance to take a lesson with leading teachers, well your loss not mine.

Eggleton is opposed to cbm on a standard rev. turn. If one examines the theory behind his statement, it is logically true .

Many Amat. tend to overdance the cbm. , relaying the wrong message-- that is to say, it can be misread and is sometimes interpreted as an Open tele. Add to this, the mans left side , again if not correctly positioned ( which in many cases , it isnt ) tends to have a naturally partial open left side .

The bottom line really , is this-- cbm should be a normal response to a left side moving fwd ( as in when we walk )--- to now" direct " someone to do this, invariably leads to more, than less .

Back a few postings. When you wrote that Egglton was opposed to CBM on a Reverse Turn. Are you sure he was talking about the Foxtrot and not the Waltz. I doubt that he would not use CBM on a Reverse Turn in the Foxtrot. This is the mistake that is continuously made here. One rule does not apply to all dances. Please put the dance that is being refered to, everybody. Didn't we learn at school When. Where. How.

"Back a few postings. When you wrote that Egglton was opposed to CBM on a Reverse Turn. Are you sure he was talking about the Foxtrot and not the Waltz. I doubt that he would not use CBM on a Reverse Turn in the Foxtrot. This is the mistake that is continuously made here. One rule does not apply to all dances. Please put the dance that is being refered to, everybody. Didn't we learn at school When. Where. How."

At least based on the teaching of several of Eggleton's students who were world champions in their own right, it applies to reverse turns in all of the dances. It's a consquence of the asymetry of the hold, not of the dance being done.

But you are probably going to need an in-person lesson (or several) with a world class teacher before you will really understand the idea. Ask around and you'll find many who have studied with these teachers who've heard the idea from them, but few who will claim to understand it.

I personally prefer (and have more often heard) the explanation of initially turning the lower body while keeping a strong left shoulder lead in the upper, and only letting the upper body rotate later. Maybe tangotime can add some detail on the no cbm at all version.

I think what is coming into play here , is upper body speed and lower body speed,( as indicated in Synon. posting ).
Am trying to re call if the dance mentioned , was only waltz . ( which would seem more logical to some, maybe not , to others ) havent spoken to Peter in quite a while ,but next opportunity, will ask .

I think that when someone of note, makes a declaritive statement, suggesting change, of a long standing concept, it will invariably have opposition .

I have to go back to what len also preached-- his belief that cbm,s greater purpose in life, was to bring the partner back into position from o/side partner. He also frequently stressed a " sympathetic " use of the action, particularly in whisk.
I also know many teachers , who do not overtly stress it, saying that it should be a more natural effect .
It always brings me back to Lens thoughts on "Technique" .

Would like to add this thought--

I know there are many of you reading these posts are students. We should make it clear, that some of the responses , are very academic in nature . They are not meant, I am sure ,to confuse you .

Also, one should realise, that the many nuances of dance, cannot be learned from the written word , or a video.

It applies to all Reverse Turns in all dances. So you said.
Now lets look at the Tango. A Open Reverse Turn. If you dont use CBMP on one and three then your Tango will have yours and your partners hips fully exposed. Not a pretty site is it.
I will call them the Blackpool Tapes. Name me one dancer who does not apply CBM on a Reverse Turn in the Foxtrot. There are plenty to check out.
Name one.

Tango-- bad e.g. -- we should be well aware that the discussion was about " swing" dances . And by the way-- dont shoot the messenger !! . I also stated , upon reflection that it probably only applied to Waltz ( maybe you dont read so good !! )
Or are you debating just for debatings sake ?

And lastly, you never asked me what MY opinion was . But I have a feeling, only yours counts

Terence2. I missed the bit where you stated, upon reflection that it probably only applied to the Waltz. Which is exactly what I wrote. I doubt if Peter ever intended that CBM was not to be applied in the Foxtrot Quickstep Reverse Turns. We must also remember he always was tall and lean built. If he had been shorter and more heavily built his ideas might have been different. Let us also take into consideration that it was first written in 1928 by Victor Silvester and is still in the books today. As you said ..dont shoot the messenger.
So. What is your opinion. While we are at it. What about an Open Telemark in the Waltz. Would CBM be applied there. Add to that a Fallaway. There is a beautifull example of CBM if you can watch Jonathan Crossley in this one.

I thought we were in agreement , -- my feeling about many things in dance-- less is more .
Open tele. --it depends largely , on to whom I am teaching -- pretty much book if beginner, medals etc.--- but for comp work , I like the " roll " effect ., and of course q, open , on occasion .
Possibly ( other than locks ) one of the most versatile figures in dance .

Where you aware that it comes from a skiing action ?( modified, of course )