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Re: time signatures in tango cf foxtrot
Posted by Serendipidy
3/11/2008  3:35:00 PM
Phil. Very well put. I would suggest that anybody who is interested in bars of music and how it is phrased into eight bars would be well advised to print Phil's message to study and understand. having said that. There are two very nice songs which would be excellent to dance to except they are not eight bar phrase. One is V. Waltz tempo. Billy Joel's "Piano Man" 3/4 and Neil Diamond's " Song Sung Blue " which is Foxtrot Tempo. 4/4. Neither of these stick to the eight bar phrasing.
As you know dancing in phrase and in rhythm as been one of the things I have been plugging for a couple of years now. I hope it has helped some people to realise there is much more to dancing than just hopping around the floor. Again , well written. Good Luck

phrase
Re: time signatures in tango cf foxtrot
Posted by terence2
3/11/2008  7:38:00 AM
Time sign, are given to stress where the " accents " and how the music may be allocated time wise -- for e.g

An octave has 8 notes ( 2 bars of music-- lets take a 4/4 sign. this is now implying that there as an even distribution between each note .

In the octave , we have the ascending bar and the descending bar ( you can in many cases, here it "climb" and fall )
The dominant notes are usually the 1st and 3rd.
One tends to find more simplified rhythms in the " smooth " side of dance .

Now-- we divide the notes into 3or4 values -- A whole note-- a half note-- a quarter note and even an eighth note

Commonly called a Quaver-- a semi quaver-- a demi quaver and semi demi quaver, and so on.

By this method, we can determine how our Slows and quicks may be "time " allocated .

The latin rhythms are far more complex .
reason ?-- many syncopations are present in the very early stages of learning-- this leads to some "odd " time allocations like 3/4 notes etc.

if one delves into the more authentic Latin rhythms ( polyrhythms ) many of the instruments are given very specific roles to play.
the clave, is the one that sets the style--- whether Rumba clave or Son clave.

Dont want to get you too confused--- might i suggest you find a teacher who understands composition and its relationship to dance .

You asked what instrument to listen to for guidance-- that depends on the dance and the arrangement -- For smooth-- the 1st beat of the bar is usually very dominant-- could be piano-- bass -- drum .

In latin , Piano is frequently dominant--- but could be Clave- bass -- congas or cow bell .
Re: time signatures in tango cf foxtrot
Posted by paulw
3/11/2008  7:34:00 AM
Thanks for your huge input. I will need time to digest it before commenting further.

I think I get the principle although I still struggle to pick out the accenting on begin the beguine for example. And I am not sure that I can really feel the difference between starting a feather on beat 3 as opposed to 1. Maybe I am just tone deaf !
Re: time signatures in tango cf foxtrot
Posted by terence2
3/11/2008  7:37:00 AM
The down beat in F/t, is VERY dominant-- just learn to count --1-2-3-4 and repeat
Re: time signatures in tango cf foxtrot
Posted by nigelgwee
3/11/2008  8:50:00 AM
"An octave has 8 notes..."

Just to clarify: An octave is really the (pitch) interval of an 8th (i.e., what you get when you sing doh-re-me-...la-ti-doh: the lower 'doh' to the higher 'doh'). It's not just any 8 notes. I think to use this pitch concept in explaining timing/rhythm would tend to confuse the issue.

Another point of terminology (this time about rhythm):
Rest of the world----United States
semibreve---------whole note
minim------------half note
crotchet----------quarter note
quaver-----------eighth note
semiquaver-------sixteenth note

If we're counting in 4/4, then the slow is usually the minim (half note) and the quick the crotchet (quarter note); if in 2/4 the slow is the crotchet (quarter note) and the quick the quaver (eighth note). Whether it is 4/4 or 2/4 really boils down to the notation: for dancers what is paramount is the beat that is felt. Also, musical phrasing, which transcends bars (measures), is yet another issue.

Hope this helps. Will be glad to clarify.
Re: time signatures in tango cf foxtrot
Posted by terence2
3/11/2008  9:29:00 AM
You are of course , quite correct-- I placed it into ( I thought ) more practical terms for the " dancer " to relate .
Wholes, halves and quarters have always seemed more pragmatic from a teaching standpoint .
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