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+ View Older Messages

re: The Quickstep
Posted by Jonathan Atkinson
11/19/2000  5:14:00 AM
Not sure I understand that. After a Natural Pivot Turn, the man should be in a position to move forward on RF. The last 3 steps of a Spin Turn begin with man back on LF. Something is missing from this equation.

Re the prep step: It's not an "official" convention, so no mention of it is made in the technique book. It's more like just a thing people do to set up momentum, and also to wind up the body in preparation for a swinging action (if you want to swing your left side forward, you really need to start with it slightly back, first).

You'll also sometimes see people shifting weight to one side or the other even before the prep... sort of like a prep for a prep. But no mention of that is made, either. There's no absolute right or wrong when it comes to setting up; just personal preference as to what makes you comfortable.

Re the teaching method: I have upon occasion danced Viennese patterns to Slow Waltz music or Quickstep patterns to medium tempo Foxtrot. But more often I use time away from the music to teach footwork, leg & body action, etc so that by the time they do dance to music, they're capable of dancing full speed anyway. However, I am almost exclusively a private lesson teacher now, and private teaching methods are very different than group methods. Your idea might be a very good one in a group class setting.

Sincerely,
Jonathan

re: The Quickstep
Posted by Dave Goggin
11/18/2000  10:17:00 PM
Here is a question.

Our teacher is teaching the group a quickstep pattern in which a natural pivot turn (man finishes facing diagonal to center) is followed by only the last 3 steps of a natural spin turn (man: LRL, finishes backing diagonal to center.) followed by a progressive chasse.

Is this a common sequence?

Also on both waltz and quickstep, the first natural turn is preceeded by a preparation step (man: LF forward) which I am sure is correct but surprised that it's not mentioned in either Moore or Silvester. Is it put there to make sure the couple is moving before taking the first "official" step for consistency with every other step in the dance?

I have been advocating creating a set of practice tapes for viennese waltz and quickstep which start at very slow tempo so newbies can get their footwork precise and over the course of 1 hour, speed up to regulation tempo for those dances. Has anyone ever tried this as an aid to practicing your steps? In the opinion of the experienced people would it be helpful to beginners to practice to a slowly increasing tempo of music?

DG

re: The Quickstep
Posted by Frank
11/14/2000  11:35:00 PM
Maybe a belated post, but this is my favorite dance, though I am still far from highly accomplished in it, and I had the same kinds of Q's when I started out, in trying to understand it in proper perspective, verus what I was seeing & experiencing on local social floors.

The is only one Quickstep - an Int'l dance - but many variations. It is derived from a turn-of-the-century American dance, beautifully repackaged by the English (with their usual penchant for complexity to try to baffle the savages), and sent back to us as the beautiful thing we now work so hard to master. But in view of its history, that ol' version of fast foxtrot quarter turns, often taught socially and so uninspiring to those of us who love fine movement & technique of the showier version, is just as valid (if not moreso, and the foundation on which the whole English one is based.

I found this revelation helpful, because when I began struggling to learn the I-Brz syllabus at a studio, I would then go see the classes & dancing at the local big social ballroom and say "what on earth is THAT excuse for Quickstep??" in utter dismay, or wonder if I had begun to learn the dance on a different planet. Then, I would try to dance it with ladies who'd learned it at a third place from a very competent instructor, but who also emphasises the social aspects of dance, only to find them dancing with no swing & forcing me to exact 45-deg angles or disgusted that I did not worship this strict directional orientation (and also strict timing right on top of the beat in my leading. I found all this quite frustrating, until I studied its history a little, because both sides of the social "equation" thought the other couldn't do the dance & were hosed up, and many partners began declining me for QS (pout). To this day, finding a good QS partner at a local social dance is still difficult for me, due to the variations, unless she has had similar Int'l training.

I feel that good QS is the most fun adults can have in public without getting arrested, when one has either the floorcraft or the uncrowded floor (at my not-quite Silver level).

I feel that one profits by first mastering controlled chasse movements in slower waltz, with its double recoveries & collection, not to mention good dance position, before taking on QS, if joy is the goal.

I also feel that dancing QS somewhat to the feel of the melody - still "on time" but not religiously rushed - is the way to emotively enjoy the dance without the feeling of "crashing around the floor together."

I feel that directional orientation, while important, is the least important thing in dance - expecially a social dance, where there are 70 other moving people to deal with. There is also a big difference btw what direction my upper body is aligned when moving DW or DC with technique, compared to what the socialized versions demand without it. I have had near-facist followers yank my shoulders around with stiff forearms to point me in the "right" direction(aarrggghh).

It is true, as someone inferred, that one can get by for awhile socially with only 3 moves of it (say, quarter right, prog chasse & fwd lock), and I've done so with ladies who are too terrified to settle down & follow other moves or who perhaps haven't had training in movement & dance position. It is one way to put a partner at ease and still participate out on the floor somehow(grin).

Humorously, or maybe perversely(?), some of my most memorable QS partners have been ladies who never had a group ballroom lesson, but spent a few hours playing privately with me with movement technique & body mechanics, and later followed it halfway though the Silver syllabus in the ballroom without ever learning (memorizing) a single pattern. No body leading (contact), either. (go figure...) Having to "create" partners this way has driven home to me that great lead/follow dance movment & technique is pure physics. If one is not too picky about high accomplishment, and a follower has not been "conditioned" by the patternwork of social dance classes, a great deal of essential lead/follow physics can be very quickly imbued into a willing follower's muscle memory. Nowhere have I seen this more dramatically than in such forays with QS.

When it comes down to true technique (i.e., things that make you move effectively & connect with your partner), I think that QS is where the rubber meets the road.

I do not have a dedicated regular partner, and find that many women can very quickly become fairly good followers in Standard like this, though they won't be highly accomplished dancers for years, and I'm certainly no International trainer. I love sharing dance this way, and it also helps keep me from wrecking my training by dancing with so many ladies (A-Brz) with no technique. When I do - often the rule in social situations - I'm often actually following the woman, though she thinks I'm "leading" - for the same reason. As long as we had fun, who cares? I get a lot of compliments on my "leading" while I'm daydreaming & practicing my following (hee-hee!).

Anyone else have similar experiences?

re: The Quickstep
Posted by Dave Goggin
10/18/2000  2:22:00 PM
The quarter turns you refer to... are they actual zig zags? I think the "quarter turn pair" I call it is the actual #1 bronze step even in Int'l? Good choice for quickstep newbies.
re: The Quickstep
Posted by Steve
2/19/2000  8:10:00 AM
Jessica. Although I understand what you mean when you say "Quickstep is jsut a faster version of Foxtrot", technically speaking it's a bit more complicated than that. Whilst the basic rhythm of each are the similar, it is not just the speed of the music that differentiates the 2 dances. The underlying rhythm (that is accents on the beats) in Foxtrot is not as marked as in Quickstep. In other words, it's easier to hear the accented beats in Quickstep than in Foxtrot.

On top of that, modern Foxtrot music is written with a different time sigature than Quickstep.

All abit technical I know, but I hope it interests you.

re: The Quickstep
Posted by weddingdance
2/21/2000  10:04:00 AM
Hi Jessica,
I think you'll find if you go out dancing socially and a Quickstep comes on, a man who asks you to dance it will generally do American Foxtrot Quarter Turns (aka zig-zags) down the line of dance, and either a fast box turn or a spin turn in the corner. It's best to keep things simple at first, and of course he wouldn't want to dance above the level of his partner. Once you've had some lessons, and the leaders know you can dance it, they'll add more of the locks and chassees as Jonathan and Steve mentioned. It's a very fun, exhilerating dance that leaves me quite breathless when danced with a good leader. Enjoy!
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