Jonathan:

Thank you very much !! I am going to work on the phrases by using any combo I can mix together. With your post now I get a general understanding of what phrase is. Thanks.

Keh Gough

After you dance the first tango basic your left foot will be free. Regardless of whether you move forward or backward at this point you have to step with your left foot. Remember that tango is meant to be danced progressing down the line of dance. Dancing it forward and backward like you suggested will cause problems avoiding other couples.

At the highest levels, the only real difference between AS and IS tango is that American tango allows variations of the dance position including open positions. At lower levels, there are some differences in the figures that are taught. For example, there is no "Tango Close" in IS. This also applies in general to the differences between all American Smooth and International standard dances.

Blair

Hi, Jonathan:

I am not a musician to understand the difference on beats, measures and bars. In digesting your most recent post, I need to clearify a few things.

My understanding of measures is such:

In Tango, it takes 8 beats to form a measure.
In V. Waltz, it takes 6 beats (123,456) to form a measure.
In Slow Waltz, it takes 3 beats to form a measure.

My son (dances too) who plays instrument in high school told me not to use 'bar' in discribing measure. For me bar and measure is the same thing. But he said bar is something more to it that I won't understand so just don't use it.:(

To me in your previous post as you mentioned measure 25 and 33, I took it as beats # 25 and # 33. If I am wrong on that please clear me.

Allow me to continue explaining in beats for now. When dancing Int'l Tango, I would go 2 walks, then progressive side steps, so far I danced 8 beats which is quite nice to end at 8. (as I did too much American style Tango)

Then I would dance back rock, SQQS,QQS, ending feet closed, now I used up 10 beats. Followed by 2 walks ending with promenade 4 beats ( now I am in promenade position ), continued to dance natural twist or promenade fallaway ( both 8 beats ), then add close promenade (6 beats) to end my phrase(?). Total of the beats from back rock to here are 28 beats.:confused: How do I plan my steps so that my phrases will end nicely hamonizing with the music on beat 16, 24, or 32?

Regards,

Keh Gough

Hi, Thanks for the answer. I know the open reverse turn, but it's not exactly what I try to do.
Let say I want to do one basic toward, and one basic backward ? ( a bit strange but ... ) while open reverse turn is always toward ?

BTW, what is the difference btw american and int'l tango ?

Thanks,

Hi, Jonathan:

My understanding of American Tango is always very much confined to the 8 beat counts. When doing some advanced variation in AS there are 12 counts and 16 counts. Or even 4 counts + 8 counts( or 16) and ended with 4 counts as Tango close.

While in the International style, there are steps dancers need to totally ignore the 8 beats. Such as 6 beats in "close promenade" and "back corte", 2 beats in "progressive link", 4 beats in "progressive side steps", 4 beats in "2 walks". The concept seemed to me just dance to each of the beats on time but not to worry about the ending of 8 counts.

What do you think?

Keh Gough

Blair,

There is actually a "Brush Tap" in Int'l Tango, which is for all intents and purposes the same thing as a Tango Close (with a slightly different foot action at the end).

The main difference would be context: Int'l style dancers do not use a combination of two walks + a Brush Tap as a basic movement to be repeated again and again around the floor like American Style dancers do with their Tango Close. So I would not say that Int'l style basic syllabus differs from American in that it has no Tango Close. I think it would be more accurate to say that it does not employ a repeatable basic step the way American style does.

One might say that I'm splitting hairs, but I think it's a notable distinction.

Sincerely,
Jonathan Atkinson

Hi, Jonathan:

Sorry to bother you again. Beside the steps I mentioned before, I also know progressive link (2 beats), open and closed reverse turn (8 beats), and back corte (6 beats). Can you use the steps that I already learned to explain the phrases so that the amalgamation will allow me to end at 24 and 32, or the clorrect interval? or at least I can better understand what the phrase means?

Thanks,

Keh Gough

If you want to create an amalgamation that phrases to some multiple of 8, the easiest thing to do is start by choreographing a combination in whatever way you like, and then adjusting it by toying with those figures which are more flexible.

For example, I'll take a typical combo:

Two walks, link to PP, closed promenade, corte to DC, open reverse with closed finish, link to PP, open promenade, brush tap.

This combo is 5 eights + 6 beats. It might be nice to extend it two more beats, so that it's a clean 6 eights, and so that the brush tap becomes the final statement, or "cadence" to the 6th eight.

Two beats are easy to find, although less so if you want to stay strictly in syllabus. A link, of course, is two beats. But we're pretty swamped on links already. Another way to do it is to remove two beats somewhere, and add four somewhere else (or remove 6, then add 4, etc). That's what I think I'll do here:

I'm going to exchange the Open Promenade (6 beats) for a Promenade Link (4 beats). Now I need four more beats. I can add two walks in between the closed finish of the open reverse and the second link to PP. That would make the combo:

Two walks, link to PP, closed promenade, corte, open reverse w/ closed finish, two walks, link to PP, promenade link, brush tap.

That's a perfect 6 eights. But now after looking at it, here's something I like even better:

Going back to the original combo, I'd like to insert a back rock in between 1-3 of the open reverse and the closed finish. That would be 4 more beats, except that you can't do a RF back rock by itself and follow with a closed finish... you have the wrong foot free. So you have to exchange the closed finish with a back corte, which is essentially the same thing, but you're just adding a LF side & slightly back. So all in all, I've added 6 beats.

The reason I like this better is because even though I started the open reverse on count 3 (a little strange, but not bad), I've manipulated it so that at least the figure ends on phrase. In fact, with two walks, link to PP, closed promenade, corte to DC, 1-3 open reverse, back rock, and corte to end DW, we have a perfect four eigths... a nice, clean number for phrasing.

After that, I'll try to re-work whatever follows to make it phrase, also. But really all we have left is the link, open promenade, and brush tap. It's a pretty short phrase, so there's not much I can do with it unless I know what's coming next. The bigger point is that there are always a dozen ways you can work things to make them phrase, and even more if you stray from strict syllabus.

I hope that, by letting you into my thought process as I come up with this stuff, I've managed not only to give you a combo that phrases, but more importantly, given you some tools to solve these problems yourself. Even if I used a figure or two that you don't know (yet), you can use the same tools to amalgamate the ones that you do know, and create your own mini-phrases for dancing Tango.

Sincerely,
Jonathan