Jonathan,
How difficult would it be to learn both International and American styles? My goal is to compete. Currently, I am learning American Style (rhythm and smooth). I watched the international dancers at a competition I participated in. I have this urge to try Latin and Standard but I am not sure if I want to completely stop doing American. My main concern is that doing both styles would be too time consuming.
Do you have any suggestions or comments? Also, on a similar note, do competitive dancers typically choose to focus on a single type of dance (latin or standard) or do they do both? I like both types. Thanks!

Gilbert

There is a topic regarding this dilemma a few months ago and the comments were pretty helpful to me. I think you can still scroll back the thread and go over it if you want some anwers right away.

Here is my highly opinionated response.

American smooth is OK as far as it goes. But the fact of the matter is that outside the USA, int'l style is danced both in competitions AND socially in dance halls. If you limit yourself to American style you'll be able to dance only here in the USA which as a culture isn't much of a hotspot for ballroom and be incompatible with everyone else.

Yet another example of U.S.A. provincialism and isolation from the rest of the world... very irritating.

My understanding is that the history goes something like this. Arthur Murray was looking for a way to simplify dancing down so beginners could dance foxtrot, waltz, etc socially. So he grabbed a few basic steps and defined all the others in various dances in terms of them throwing in some swing, etc. This simplified system later evolved into what we know as American style.

Having said that, I think ballroomdancers.com is doing a lot to rationalize and extend American style into a complex and sophisticated alternative art form which can stand on its own in comparison with Int'l. Indeed, simplification without losing sophistication/tradition is a worthy challenge in any scholarly pursuit.

I don't really see American Smooth as being more "limited" than International Standard. I think that, at least for competitive purposes, it requires a lot MORE knowledge: arm movements, use of the head, leading/following without always being in full closed body contact (open work), etc. As Jonathan pointed out, for exams and competitions the technique is the same for smooth and standard with regard to use of feet, ankles, the closed hold, etc.; and alignments and degree of turns are pretty much indistinguishable.
I learned American style first, and didn't really find that I had any major adjustments to make in following International patterns - all you have to think about is closed body contact. But I have heard some women say that they learned International style first, and had a hard time adjusting to American style because the lead/follow in some smooth patterns requires a different kind of sensitity than only closed body contact.
And, at least in competitions in the US, a lot of Standard dancers seem to use quite a bit of American-style open work when they dance their solos.
I do like both styles of dance, but I prefer American because of the great variety it allows.

Dave...When was the last time you left the country...when was the last time 75% of all Americans left the country? Answer, probably never. So learning Intl' style with the intent and feeling that you are more "wordly" is pretty worthless. My students learn both American and Intl' and compete as well in both styles. They will all tell you that American is just as challenging on a competitive level and way more useful in a social setting!

"So learning Intl' style with the intent and feeling that you are more "wordly" is pretty worthless."

Please read the last paragraph of my previous post. You will see I'm not anti american sytle.

My intent is to finish my degree. Then I'm going to do my best to start a new life and career _outside_ the USA.

Everywhere I look I see signs that the USA may be an economic superpower but its culture is socially stagnated. I don't care to spend my whole life entrapped within such a society.

Now, let's go back to dancing discussions...

And if it is not worth much...how come all of the Pro competitors immigrating to the USA are all dancing in our American divisions?

Has anyone ever considered using pairs of spin turns in viennese waltz? (Just a guess; haven't tried this myself.) What are the prospects for adding some more figures to the official list?

DG

A Spin Turn is actually not something that can be directly repeated... at least not without some connector, such as a LF Closed Change. If you want to connect just the pivoting actions themselves (repeating steps 4-5), you're no longer doing a Spin Turn; You're doing Natural Pivots.

In Viennese Waltz, a Spin Turn isn't a wonderful figure because the changes of rotation are too abrupt and forced. Natural Pivots are good, though, particularly with "Canter" rhythm (steps on 1 and 3). This is very common in American Style.

You probably won't talk anybody into modifying the Int'l Viennese syllabus because it is the way it is for a very specific reason. But that shouldn't stop you from dancing extra variations socially. Hey -- that's what American Style is for!

Sincerely,
Jonathan

Why is the int'l viennese waltz syllabus so limited? (Sorry if this is a really dumb question.)