I would echo the seasoned comments below, but share a simplified perspective, at my lowly 2-year level of experience of pursuing both. Jovially, the main difference I have found as a student, is that "Int'l" students tend to get more real techinque training early on, than "American" students do (from most instructors), and that otherwise there is little practical difference on the social floor, at least at the lower syllabus (Bronze) levels.

Due to the absence of early technique training, I have already had to go through a couple of agonizing but rewarding periods of having to learn how to dance all over again(arrgghh/grin). This can be very humbling & temporarily discouraging, but necessary, in order to progress in ability. However, there is a better way.

Firstly, let's nail down what "technique" really is /isn't; one test: it you can throw it away & still connect with your partner & move well, it isn't technique, it's style, no matter what the instructor may call it to you. Now, good technique is common to both styles of dance, and surely makes all of it far easier (in the end) to execute, to lead and to follow.

Now, if we were in, say, ballet, we might spend 2 years at the barre before we ever took a real step - and it would be a very good thing. Of course, almost no one would get into b-room if this were the custom in America, and social instructors might starve to death. So, most of us begin dancing without technique, or fudge it, and have fun, until we try to get better. Then, the kind of "fun" I alluded to above begins!

One can go learn move after move of either style, but often the result is only confusion or complexity on the social floor, trying to execute all this "memorized" footwork to be "good." Trouble is, good dance is not primarily about move memory at all, but all about muscle memory, and whatever technique one does/doesn't learn at the outset, as important habits are being formed & cast, will tend to rule what one actually does on the floor in terms of movement in partnering, regardless of the style attempted. I affirm firsthand that bad muscle habits are exceedingly difficult to unlearn for good ones. And the older we are, the more difficult this reprogramming becomes.

While all this "neat move" instruction is entertaining & fun & easy to find, IMHO it is far better to execute 3 beginner moves of a dance with power, grace, mechanics & technique. You may find when you do only this lowly thing in some non-ballroom place, people will sit down to watch you, try to buy all of your drinks, and think you are Fred & Ginger. At the end of the evening, your face will hurt more than your feet, from smiling & laughing, because it feels wonderful. This is because instead of walking stylishly to music, you are now *dancing*.

I would suggest that you forget about a choice btw I & A, and instead take some real technique privates from the very outset. I wish I had done this myself. Learn "walk, reach, recover", learn how to walk, learn how to lead or follow from the center of your body, how to initiate & collect movement. It is more likely, but definitely not assured, that an Int'l instructor will more oriented toward teaching basic mechanics & technique, that apply to both styles equally. If you do this (politically unpopular) thing, which requires actual work & discipline, you will gain an amazing jumpstart at becoming one of the best dancers on the floor in any style, an dwhatever you spend on it will be exceedingly wisely invested, and far cheaper in the end. Concurrently, you can go to fun group classes in either style & learn all those figures, while somewhat benignly ignoring whatever gets implied as technique there that doesn't fit your own training in movement.

I feel that learning, say, quickstep, without first learning the muscular double-recovery of a chasse, is not only a waste of time, but actually harmful to progress. However, once it is somewhat mastered first, you'd be amazed at how (relatively) easily it is led & followed.

It is also probably heretical to admit that on the social floor, most of us mix it up a bit in the name of fun & practical floorcraft. It is difficult or impossible to strictly adhere to rigid Int'l patterns on a crowded floor, without being either rude, frustrated, or a gold-level Int'l dancer.

While there are certain specific moves in Int'l that one can spend years mastering - like the whisk in waltz (which is just a kind of back twinkle, hee-hee), or a progressive link in tango, much of Int'l smooth is really the same as American with more arcane names. Natural & reverse waltz turns are just linked American boxes. One mark of an advanced dancer, is the ability to move in/out of the floor, instead of just going around the outer lane like a racetrack. With good walk, reach & recover in the "swinging-type" dances like waltz, one can do nothing more than simple alternate natural & reverse turns down the floor, maybe taking a spin at the corners, and be standouts dancing exceedingly well, even very emotively. If you get bored & toss in an American twinkle, who cares? And when you are out there with a partner who only does "American" moves, you will not be lacking, because the foundational mechanics are all the same. Except you won't be leading them around by the shoulderblade or wrenching their arm, because you'll know what you're doing. And as a leader, I am finding that the less pattern work a follower has learned, the better she can follow, and be led through all manner of figures with ease and enjoyment, if she has simply learned following.

So, I'd suggest learning technique, and letting the style (A or I) take care of itself, at least for the smooth stuff and in the short term. Hope helpful, and not excessively wordy.

Learning international only worth it if there are some REAL international instructors around. A lot of them are really American coaches fudging it, and they can REALLY mess you up.

Reyesuela- Reading all of your comments shows how much of a beginner you are. Someone who has been dancing for only 8 months, no matter how many hours per week, shouldn't be so bold! Maybe you should do some homework, because the majority of your answers are wrong and/or miss-stated and the rest of them are very sarcastic and one- sided. Key words/phrases you should pay particular attention to are: "real international style instructorS" when refering to american style instructors.- as opposed to "real international instructors who try to teach american style"- the latter is a scarier sight; "NDCA" and "USABDA"- I'll let you look those up, as they have more in common than differences- hint, hint- USABDA is a member of NDCA, and abides by most of their rules/regulations. (I'm a member of both); what and why the bronze/silver/gold levels, etc. really are used for; book-learn (history) of all the dances- whether it is international or american style; the similarities/differences between the styles- and don't forget the theatre arts/caberet styles. You should also go back to the basics (bronze level)in both styles, as it takes more than 8 months to "master" that level (2-3 years), but once one knows one style, the second becomes easier. Maybe not look at dancing for it's placements (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc), but look at it on how well a couple/partnership feels and/or expresses themselves through dance as a sport and art- whether they are competing or socially dancing. I, and I'm sure the majority of the danceworld- beg you- no more comments until well learned, and unbiased.

Experienced wrote: Reyesuela- Reading all of your comments shows how much of a beginner you are.......

The only thing that justify Forums is the people who participates no matter how much beginner or Master be.
If you are a Master, post a MASTER reply who REALLY teach about question instead to scorn a reply only by it's inaccurate.
As a part of danceworld I appreciate any post or reply from anyone including Reyesuela posts and replies.

You've lost me there Carlos. You don't seem to appreciate the response of Experienced and yet in your last sentence you stated that you appreciate any response or replies including Reyesuela's.

I want to make clear that I appreciate any participation in the Forum simply by the fact to participate. With no participation there is no discussion and, in a nutshell, no (discussion) Forum.
Its "academic quality" is another question. Thanks

Tric- Thank you for your input, and well stated.
Carlos- To clear things up, I'm not scorning her for replying to the forum, I'm scorning her for her missinformed, misstated, and inaccurate biases. I feel that forums should be a learning tool for all, not a "damning" to american style dancers, NDCA, USABDA, etc., especially from one with only 8 months of dancing. If she had questions about the above, or felt that her replies would help, and not hurt, it would be a different story. I don't consider myself a "master", just "experienced" enough to know when and how to voice my opinions about certain topics. Thank you.

Hi All!

May I just take a moment to add my point of view on this? When I read Experienced's first comment, I was v., v. pi.... off, and was about to write a reply much sharper than Carlos'. So I thank Carlos for replying to E's comment along the same lines I would have chosen. If we deny our imperfections, we deny our very humanity!
I still think an apology on E's part would be a sign of a truly mature attitude (not just experienced), since there was no mistaking his verbal ostracism of Reyesuela.

At the same time, I'm glad to notice that we're beginning to calm the ripples.

How should a beginner International student approach the social dance floor?

I started learning American style first for about 10 months last year. I was disappointed with my local studio about the cost and lacking of supplemental teaching material such as books and videos. Then I met a couple in our social dance club 6 months ago who danced so smoothly and so standout in the crowd. Since then, my wife and I have been taking private International lessons from their teacher. We want to dance like them.

I consider myself between beginner and bronze level. So I can only speak from my limited experience. I always try to get to my dance club one hour before music starts. With the whole floor belong to us, we practice our standard dances: Waltz, Tango and Slow Fox Trot (our 'master' refused to teach us V. Waltz and Quick Step at the time being) with big stride without worrying about my floorcraft. When music starts and the floor gets crowded, I am in trouble.

It is too bad that there is no 'fast lane' in all my local social dance clubs here in southern Connecticut. Thanks for Frank's comment: mix International with American! Can someone tell me the rules or guidelines on how to mix? I guess if I found room, I'll try to do an International step. But International style has rigid alignment requirement (is it for beginner only?) and it is very hard for me to find room in the crowd and proper alignment at the moment.

I guess I have to 'tune down' the length of steps in order to fit the situation. But I feel compact steps will also 'slow down' the movement thus hurts the smoothness of the dance. What should we do?

I know we have to practice, practice. Now I post these questions and hope you will share your experience and knowledge on:

"How should a beginner International student approach the social dance floor to PRACTICE?"

Dave L.

Welcome to the world of dance in the US. There is no way that the two can coexist due to the fact that International Standard is a dance which generally zig zags down the line of dance where American smooth progresses directly down the line of dance. The result is a group of dancers who are constantly zigging into the LOD group. We have an additional problem with the way the american style dancers are taught by these "front end teachers". They do what I call chugging along. They have no swing or movement and so all of the dances look like a cha cha cha. This problem of mixing the styles is one of the reasons advanced dancers avoid socials. If you reduce the size of your figures you may suffer later. When you become more experienced, you will be able to reduce size while keeping the swing in your step, for now though this will be difficult. Also, with time, you will be able to adjust your alignment sufficient to be able to manoever through a crowd of chuggers. You will always have the problem of the "squirrel in the headlights" type who will scurry around in front of you until you bump into him. This again must be in their training because seldom will absolute beginners do this. Get your practice in as you do now, when the floor is nearly empty. Look for places which have dances which are not well attended and enjoy. You will be ostracised by many studio owners for the dancing you are doing but, strangely, they will come running to you for free showcases at their holiday parties if you get really good. My advice, get really good and be selective when asked to do showcases.