I have been studying the Blackpool Tapes very thoughly both moving and in a freeze frame. I cannot see any dancer anywhere , where the weight goes in front of the front foot when going forward.I can see they go into a neutral position where both feet are level and the weight is over the balls of the feet. That is the only place they can be.Then the moving foot takes off. The foot will win everytime over the body, therefore the body will never be ahead of the moving foot.If you look at Timothy Howson he appears to be if i may say, a more laid back look. I am no way criticizing. but agree with. He appears to be tall which might have some bearing.The only way to get the body ahead of the foot is to have a straight knee.. Now that comes into a different style of dancing. With both knees bent how can it be in front. Both in American Smooth and Australian New Vogue have peculiarities along those lines. If you noticed the the former picture on the home page you will see what i mean. Straight leg , weight in front. Dont try do bring that into your Modern Ballroom International Style Standard You'll get nowhere fast.fast Standard.
Going backwards for the man. There is a slight incline towards the front foot. There has to be otherwise he would be falling backwards. Sorry if this treads on a few toes but facts are facts no matter how a person moght wish to thing otherwise.I have never been told that the body goes in front of the moving foot ever. I have heard i should project my spine forward. I have heard i should project my body forward, which mean the same. Never have i been told that my spine , body will go to an imbalanced position.
As far as not counting the beats. Are they crazy. When i tap my foot to a tune being played Am i not counting. Or am i counting. Of course i am. Good Luck to all

Someone sounding suspiciously like yet another Quickstep alias posted:

"The only way to get the body ahead of the foot is to have a straight knee."

Flawed logic.

You can very easily do it by bending the standing knee forwards while advancing the body forwards so that it remains vertically aligned over the standing knee.

In fact, you can see a picture of precisely that as frame #2 of the "forward walk" on this website. The only difference in that sequence is that the moving foot has already gone through too early. Ignore that and the picture shows the exact position of the standing leg standing foot and body described: knee bent, body vertically aligned, but ENTIRELY FORWARD OF THE STANDING FOOT.

Of couse you can also do it off a straight leg, and will do so at the end of step two of numerous figures in the modern ballroom. There use to be a great picture of Marcus Hilton hanging there, body weight beyond both feet as he prepared to step out in promenade.

"I have heard i should project my spine forward. I have heard i should project my body forward, which mean the same. Never have i been told that my spine , body will go to an imbalanced position."

If it doesn't, you'll be constrainted to either taking steps no more than about one and a half times the length of your foot (so that you can go from balanced over the back foot to balanced over the front foot, with no intervening imbalance), or else you'll have to halt your body in place and only move it at times when both feet are stationary. Obviously real dancers do NEITHER OF THESE SILLY THINGS - which can be avoided only by the appropriate flight of the body through substantial periods of imbalance. (Don't let yourself be confused by the moving foot being on the floor - it is still cannot contribute support to balance during the time when it is moving across the floor)

"otherwise he would be falling backwards. Sorry if this treads on a few toes but facts are facts no matter how a person moght wish to thing otherwise."

Facts are indeed facts, but in this case you are ignorant of them. A substantial portion of any normal walking is precisely a fall; however it is a well aimed and well timed fall that takes you exactly where you want to be when you want to be there.

In contrast, we often misuse the word "fall" to mean allowing something that we didn't want to have happen happen, such as moving backwards faster than appropriate. But that's not just falling, it's falling as a result of poor aim and body timing. Good falling, well aimed and timed, is a necessary element of most human movement. And that is fact, recognized by all who research human movement, regardless if you want to proclaiim your ignorance by disputing it!

"As far as not counting the beats. Are they crazy. When i tap my foot to a tune being played Am i not counting."

Not unless you are using language to assign meaning to the taps. But foot tapping can also be distracting to your ability to sense what is going on, and as a result is prohibited in many musical performance ensembles. Seriously - you risk a lecture from the podium or even being ejected from rehearsal.

Plus you can't exactly tap your foot while dancing! Especially in a dance like foxtrot where most steps do not land on beats.

I saw my name mentioned. Its like a call to arms. All I will say is. Have you watched Timothy Howson. does he do anything you have said. How about going backwards in the Wave. Just stick to what can be seen. Does he and the others have a slight incline towards the front which is towards their partners all the way through the Wave. Yes or no will do.

"Does he and the others have a slight incline towards the front which is towards their partners all the way through the Wave. Yes or no will do."

It was not the observation that was being disputed, but the flawed analysis.

The flaw can be quite easily proven, too:

"Going backwards for the man. There is a slight incline towards the front foot. There has to be otherwise he would be falling backwards."

if it were necessary for the man to incline forwards for this reason, then it would also be necessary for the lady to incline forwards in a feather or three step, which is clearly not the case.

Obviously, the forwards incline of the man (but not the lady in a comparable situation) is caused by other factors than those given.

Something you might note however is that the body tends to be closer to the front foot than to the rear, for both man and lady, moving forwards and moving backwards.

You do know that the man is straight up and down. Do you know the lady has a curve to her left and another curve slightly back. One curve without the other is no good. The shape is often refered to as a banana shape. Richard Gleave instruction Video. Also this puts the ladies head on an incline where as the man's eyes are horizontal.If you look at the video on www.thedancing channel. tv and do as is you, wont be far wrong. Does that answere your question. Yes or no. You can get a better look if you can video off the screen and play in slow. motion.The lady retains her shape throughout.Be carefull with that banana shape. It doesn't start at the waist, but much higher. Mustn't be leaning over the rear heel.

"You do know that the man is straight up and down. "

Oops. you just contrdicted yourself!

Remember, not too many hours ago you posted this:

"Does he and the others have a slight incline towards the front which is towards their partners all the way through the Wave."

You can be inclined and be straight, but you can't be inclined and be straight "up and down" - you'd have to be straight on the incline.

Its all in relation to the floor. Lean to the side slightly, feet fairly close with the weight on the LF. Your body is still over your feet if you stand up again. When you lean you have not altered your shape in relation to your head to your feet. Back to the video. on the Wave if you drew a line, when the man is at a full extension, from the rear foot right up through the head and to the ceiling. Where on a clock face would the line stop. It wont be twelve o clock I can assure you. I hope you are learning from this, and other things spoken about like your mistaken belief that the left shoulder leads into a Reverse Turn and the alignment of steps two and three. Where did you say it was ,backing diagnal to the wall so you wrote. As you can see on the video. No left shoulder leading and dead square to backing LOD on two and three. While your at it have a look at Howson on the Feather step two to three and draw a line this time from the front foot to the ceiling and see where it lands, which will put paid to your other silly idea of the body being in front of the front leg.I'm sorry to be so severe with you but you do ask for it on some occasions don't you.

"Back to the video. on the Wave if you drew a line, when the man is at a full extension, from the rear foot right up through the head and to the ceiling. Where on a clock face would the line stop."

Meaningless, as the line through the leg and body when it is "at full extension" will obviously not be straight!

"I hope you are learning from this, and other things spoken about like your mistaken belief that the left shoulder leads into a Reverse Turn"

If you ever get a chance to take a private lesson with a world class teacher, you just might learn the truth about that - one school of thought holds that there is NO CBM in a reverse turn, the other holds that there is but it happens in the lower body first, and only later in the upper. If you never get a chance to take a lesson with leading teachers, well your loss not mine.

Eggleton is opposed to cbm on a standard rev. turn. If one examines the theory behind his statement, it is logically true .

Many Amat. tend to overdance the cbm. , relaying the wrong message-- that is to say, it can be misread and is sometimes interpreted as an Open tele. Add to this, the mans left side , again if not correctly positioned ( which in many cases , it isnt ) tends to have a naturally partial open left side .

The bottom line really , is this-- cbm should be a normal response to a left side moving fwd ( as in when we walk )--- to now" direct " someone to do this, invariably leads to more, than less .

Back a few postings. When you wrote that Egglton was opposed to CBM on a Reverse Turn. Are you sure he was talking about the Foxtrot and not the Waltz. I doubt that he would not use CBM on a Reverse Turn in the Foxtrot. This is the mistake that is continuously made here. One rule does not apply to all dances. Please put the dance that is being refered to, everybody. Didn't we learn at school When. Where. How.