Your advice is well appreciated. Thanks.

You are correct when you say that it will be difficult to unlearn helping your partner too much. It will also be difficult for your partner learn that she cannot rely on you to do everything. I think a good rule of thumb for lead/follow is that if it feels like work or it hurts, there is something wrong. It could be that you are trying too hard or that your partner is not doing enough (or a bit of both). But it is something you need to work on together.

You need to give each other feedback while you're practicing. You both should also be describing problems to your instructor. The source of the problem is not always readily apparent to them so they may rely on your input to help find solution.

Her are a couple of exercises to help you learn to wait for her. I suggest practicing this to easy steps so you don't have to think too much about the step.

AS foxtrot quarter turn basic (zig-zig, junior walk). On the steps where the lady steps foward (man backward), you should should reach back with your legs on the back steps without taking the step and wait for her to drive the step. this is easier if you are dancing close with body contact, you will feel her move through her whole body not just through her hands. This applies to other smooth dances as well so you could practice it to basic figures in waltz, V. waltz and tango.

Another way to practice is with promenades. Try the basic Tango promenade with a tango-close finish (SSQQS). On the second slow (man's right foot, lady's left), you should wait to feel her left leg push your right leg through. Do not switch her to close until she is completely on her right foot. Wait for her to close before initiating the tango-close (QQS).

Blair

I do feel uncomfortable when I feel my fingers pressing hard on her back but at the same time I need her to execute an action properly and be in the right position for the next pattern. I think I concentrate so much on the latter two and become oblivious of my partner's discomfort. I do use my palm and arm more often in leading but somehow on some occasions particularly in tango my fingers get stuck on her back. My fingers are always close together when I dance. Probably I should more conscious with my hands next time and give the lead much earlier as Keh said.

That being said, your partner needs to learn to drive her step and not expect you to do all the work. Personnally, I find that this problem is most apparent with Viennese waltz where the lady does not drive the second half of the turn. The man is forced to either drag her into the correct position for the next step or change direction.

As you become a better dancer you must resist the urge to help your partner too much. Putting too much effort into your lead pulls your partner off balance making it less likely that she can do her job. This becomes even more important as you learn more complicated silver and gold patterns.

The last thing I will mention is if your partner is not familiar with certain patterns why are you trying to force her to do them? You may be attempting patterns that are beyond her current abilities.

Blair

Where do you place your right hand behind your partner's back while dancing Tango?

Keh

Sorry, I don't attempt to adivce Rice becuase I am as good as enought yet!!

As for Keh Gough mention, using the base of palm.
I have several questions about that.
I've seen many teachersand skilled dancer(just social level). I also rised this question on next topic on this board.

They were not olny use palm base or fingers, but also chage it's position on the back of lady.
sometime just under shoulder blade near left side of lady, sometime uner shoulder blade but near spiral, sometime down near hip and spiral.(A nice people just taught me several day ago!!)

Especially, I found that, they often let right palm to face ground( palm parallel gournd, the back of palm face sky) and just let right side of palm( all root and back of thumb) to keep contact with back of lady, when leading lady from outside partner position to PP (right hand just under shoulder blade near leftside of lady, it seems use back of palm to support lady to turn right into PP position), or leading lady from close position to contrat check, or some fiqures like that(right hand near spiral and hip). I don't know why? would someone will tell me why they do so ???

When they were taking the same foot lunge or Right Hinge, they often used their right upper arm to lift lady slight upper to extend body line. of course It is very beautiful, because you can see a smoothly line developing...
But would someone tell my why they do so, that is not mean use arm to leading?

Thanks in advance

Best regard

JOHN SHUE at Taiwan Island

I forgot to mention the shoulder leads. Shoulder leads are great helps to send message across to your partner and this is done in continueous motion from the prior steps. That is to say shoulder leads are there before the next music beat come up.

Regards,

Keh

Amen to that! As a leader I almost wish they wouldn't teach the follower's part of the sequences in group classes, so we guys would be forced to learn how to lead them properly. That'd make the classes pretty annoying for the followers, though!

I often find it very difficult to tell if I'm leading a new pattern or combo well in class, since even if my lead stinks, my partner knows what she's supposed to be doing next and thus I get no feedback. I usually treat group classes (at least, the ones given before social dances) as extended warm-up sessions and sock the new stuff away to try out on one of my advanced lady friends the next day, when she can give me detailed comments about what I'm doing right or wrong.

Which is to say, I completely agree with what's been said already: the fastest way to develop a good lead is to get feedback from someone who already knows what one is supposed to feel like.

I think you are describing a very common problem. When you describe giving her a hard lead, this tells me that you are pulling her. You should not need to lead hard to dance a particular pattern. In a closed hold, the lead should come entirely from your frame. If you are leading by pushing and pulling her with your arms you are breaking your frame and likely sending her mixed messages. Of course it takes two to tango, it is hard to lead her if she breaks her frame or loses tone in her arms.

A good training device for proper leading is a hula hoop. This helps you to isolate leading through your entire body rather than through your arms. To use the hula hoop, hold it in your arms with one edge against your chest to approximate a ballroom hold. You can practice alone or with your partner. Your partner can take a practice hold by moving into the center of the hoop. Practice dancing your routines in this position, the hoop will help force you to lead using your whole body not just your arms.

Blair

Whenever a follower is unclear about what is expected, is uncomfortable (physically or emotionally) with executing a pattern, or is anticipating a future pattern with trepidation, both trust and ability to 'hand over' to the leader suffer. In a beginner this often triggers loss of confidence, and then things fall apart completely. Using force to compel action by a follower makes matters worse, particularly when the lead is incorrect in the first place.

Let me repeat that for emphasis. When a pattern doesn't work, using more force is NOT the answer!! Particularly if it's sufficient to cause discomfort to the follower! A more correct lead and/or easier patterns until the skill level of both partners improves usually solves the problem.

There are a lot of exercises for smooth/standard dances involving dancing apart 'shadowing' each other or dancing with body connection only. "Look ma no hands" forces the leader to use his whole body to lead while teaching the follower to maintain correct position relative to her partner without relying on him pushing or pulling her.

Try dancing VERY simple basic figures like right/left boxes and hesitations for a few minutes without touching at all. Remember your job is to present an absolutely clear picture using the best technique you have. Then dance with only your bodies touching; no arms, no hands. Then her left arm/ your right. Finally try dancing again with your full frame. You should both feel a major difference within your own bodies.

I'd suggest not critiquing each other at this stage! Remember, you know what you're planning on doing at any given instant, but your partner does NOT, nor does she have any clues from physical contact that she might have been relying on in the past. This is a MUCH harder exercise from the perspective of the follower. And the less body lead you've been using, the harder it will be for her.

I think learning to work off of connections is the cure for lead/follow problems in rhythm and Latin. I realize I'm in the minority on this theory given the small number of people who use them, but dancing with someone who connects is so much more FUN than any of the alternatives