My teacher told me to hold the second step of waltz longer(ie: 1 22 3 - ie: natural turn). is that mean the third step has to speed up ?

I definatly in agreement with checking with your teacher on what exactly he is talking about. The second beat of Waltz is where most of movement occurs (Swing and Sway), and I would guess that ( one, Twooooo... three...) is trying to descibe swing and sway. Generally, a hover type movement is a help position with the feet rather close together... often held for a few bars. Unless your working on Open material, I wouldn't expect you to be working on "hover" movements.
If you look at what is happening, step one is where you collect and prepare for swing and sway. Remember, on the beat of one ( which is where the ACCENT is) you should have your weight into you knees,over your foot, preparing to move. Beat two is where SWING and SWAY occur, this is mearly a the release of the energy from your legs, which was prepared for on the privious step. On the third beat, a LOT of things happen. The feet close, this is where you are supposed to feel the highest point of rise. Next, you have to lower in a controlled manner, so that you don't apppear heavy, and sloppy. Also, let's not forget, before the next beat... the (&).. you have to extend, and change shape!!
As I see it, the hardest part of Waltz, and the most time consuming part.. is the third beat and the time between it and the next bar. One thing I was told by my coach to help with this.. is.. (Quick Quick Slow..)
What do you think about that??
This is mearly a way to "trick" yourself into really taking the time lower and extend into the next bar.
I really like this thought, before, I had been chanting, (1,2,3,&.. 1,2,3,&...)
Try it and see what you think.

In music it's known as "rubato".

Playing everything in perfectly strict time leads to a very mechanical robotic sound.

Classical musicians are famous for adding rubato in their playing. I've even heard some of my non classical friends say that classical musicians can't keep the beat because they are so used to altering the time as they play.

Regardless, rubato is one of those things that helps give music a sense of direction, movement and energy. It's the sense of rise and fall others are referring too. Interpretation.

You might think of the 2nd beat thing as a ball thrown into the air. There's a point where it's neither rising or falling. Now imagine the cartoon coyote of roadrunner fame. He fires off on a rocket chasing the roadrunner. At the high point he always seems to run out of fuel at the high point (apogee). As his rocket falls out from under him he struggles a bit to hover stealing a bit of time in the face of the inevitable. However, eventually he falls away and by Newton's Laws of Physics has to hit the ground at the same time as his spent rocket.

Whoa, what did I have for breakfast!

OB

Hovering on the second step certainly gives waltzing more character. My teacher recently asked me to start holding beat 2 for a fraction longer to give a hover effect. You do have to steal time from beat 3 (beat 1 in the backward turning lock?) but it's important to remember that it's only a fraction of a beat (less than half a beat)and the exact amount depends on your interpretation - this is what dancing is all about after all. You should normally be perfectly balanced at the end of beat 2- the step on beat 3 is a 'gethering' step to prepare you for the next power step on beat 1. Check your balance by dancing slowly - without music. This will uncover a lot of problems!!

You must be careful if you are emphasizing the two not to take so much time that you rush through "3." Rushing through "3" will force you to either lower too quickly or lower through "1."

Blair

It's called "hovering" when you lengthen the second step. Two should be the longest (widest) step, the highest step, and the timing should be extended. If you have the proper "fall," Three will not appear or feel rushed. You should look like you're floating outside of time before moving on. It would be counted "One, Twoooooo, Three." hee-hee! I was just saying that out loud as I was typing it. Hope this helps!

another LB

Panther,

This quote from Jim Loy says it well from a musical (rather than dance) point of view.

But the main feature of a Viennese waltz is that those three beats per measure are not played evenly. The first beat is right on the money; the second is played slightly early; and the third is slightly late. The rhythm is slightly jerky, like the hint of a hickup. The effect is obvious, if done authentically, as Austrian orchestras always do. The director directs one beat per measure, giving only the first of the three beats, by the way.

OB

Sorry if the HTML didn't work on this post.

I think you'll find good Viennese Waltz dance music is played in Strict Tempo but not neccessarily Strict Time. Strict Tempo and Strict Time are not the same thing.

In an old style or classical viennese besides playing with time within the bar to give a distinctive feel you have other issues of time like ritardando, accelerando, etc. to deal with which is why some people say you can't dance ballroom to classical music.

With strict tempo there are the same number of beats over a measured time period. The time period between the downbeats will be exact. So between measures the first strong beat of every bar will be equally spaced. But the time between the first and second and second and third beat within the bar are not neccassarily exactly equal. In a synthesized production no doubt they will be exactly equal (and consequently mechanical sounding).

I remember watching good fox trotters when I first started ballroom. I was vary aware that the dancers were very precise on the downbeat but the steps in between seemed oddly out of sync. I was also aware that the teachers I was first exposed to were very precise in counting out timing in group classes but that there own dancing filled with rubato. If I asked about it they would just say, "Slow, Quick, Quick" or whatever very precisely.

When I finally reached a top level teacher the concentration was less on the beat and more on the phrasing in the music. "Forget the time. Dance the melody in your head,"is more what he says to my wife and I.

I think that's the beginning of turning steps into dance. Then again, I apologize if I'm talking over my level.

OB

PantherSon,

You're right. PC probably is getting more than he was really asking. Your also right about this being a good technical thread.

In my own case I came to ballroom after being involved in a strong music background. It was quite difficult for awhile because I had a strong tendency to put everything on the beat. Music got in the way. Luckily, my wife and I study with a teacher and what we would call in music a "finisher". (I don't know what the similar term would be in dance). Regardless, our finisher is always giving me heck for being too precise time-wise.

Today, my wife and I were working with a fellow on his tango. We were covering reverse turns partner inline and partner outside. As we analyzed the difference for him it was evident to us that to put partner outside required a slightly faster body speed on the 2nd quick. For us there is a difference in time.

Now we are Gold Level dancers so we still have a lot to learn and I'm the first to admit that I can be wrong. Still you bring up an interesting idea for discussion:"Do ballroom dancers really play with time or is it just a perception?"

I know that to play Viennese waltzes correctly I was always taught to play the 2nd and 3rd beats slightly off true time.

I'm sure there would be many different opinions on this and I'd like to hear them. I'm sure pc won't mind.

OB

Hey Operabob,

Did you mean that the 1st beat in classical Viennese Waltz is shorter than the 2nd one? If yes, then I agree too. Some times I have chances to listen to them, well, seem to be old German style. A little haste followed by a little hesitation, good to listen to.

But, competition music is surely played evenly, with equal beats. The old style Viennese Waltz is played not very often socially, since not every one can enjoy it. But if it is played, I wonder how people dance? Do they step steadily as usual or a little bit syncopatedly?

Yeah, your Tango is excellent, as you described. And about our Hover technique in Waltz, any idea?

Best regards,
MSN