Are we sticking to the technique book.There is sway on step two of an Open Telemark but not on step three.On an Open Impetus there is sway on two as well as three. Pages 140 and 144.
Just to be awkward Richard Gleave on his video on the first three of a Natural says Drive. Swing. Sway on three.

"Are we sticking to the technique book.There is sway on step two of an Open Telemark but not on step three."

The original exchange concerned step 2 only.

"On an Open Impetus there is sway on two as well as three. Pages 140 and 144."

This is simply not correct. In both the telemark and the impetus, the sway is formally given for step 2 only, not step 3.

anymouse, I apologize. I wasn't trying to make you look foolish by changing the post after you responded.

I was trying to edit it because it wasn't what I wanted to say when all hell broke loose at work. We're still trying to help a co-worker straighten out a mess but she won't listen to anyone and we're going to be up all night.

jj

Sway. What a lot of writting when it could be much easier to say and less confusing. That on nearly all turns . Exceptions are all Spins where the turn is too quick to permit... Sway is to be used. Sway is used on figures that curve or wave and in some side figures such as a Cross Chasse. All turns are initiated by Contrary Body Movement step, and Sway is taken directly following this step. If the Contrary Body Movement step is with the right foot, the inclination of the Sway will be to the right. There is no Sway on a Reverse Weave in the Waltz. There is on a Weave in Foxtrot. That's all we need to know.

No problem with the edits, but I think there was a disconnect in the discussion:

"I have had curved figures choreographed for me which did require some sway on what you call a passing step,"

I was arguing against the idea that the presence of sway necessarily implies a rise-to-full-stop, not in favor of it.

This is true even if you look at cases where the sway formally continues beyond step 2 into step 3. The first example to be found in the book is the whisk. Despite the sway continuing, this is a passing figure with no continuation of rise during the third step. But I'd agree most examples of this sort are going to be non-syllabus.

"I was arguing against the idea that the presence of sway necessarily implies a rise-to-full-stop, not in favor of it."

I think that my original point made the opposite implication, that the "rise-to-full-stop" (I'm assuming that this expression means what Howard calls Type 1 foot rise) implies the use of sway. Granted, my choice of words could have been better, but I don't believe that they suggested that the use of sway demanded such rise.

My comment about the open choreography was more concerned with sway and turning figures; perhaps "curving" would have been a better word.

jj

Lets hear it from you experts. We all agree there is sway on step three of a Natural or Reverse, we will use the Waltz as an example. As we rise on three there is Sway. On step four if this is a Spin Turn there is no Sway.So where do we loose that Sway . Is it whilst we are still up. Or is it on the way down , Or is it when we reach our lowest point on the count of ( and ). Before coming into this one and spouting what you think. Go to Luca and Lorain Waltz Demo on youtube and report what is.
Whilst I have your attention. I've lost who said that the Foxtrot people do not get as high as in the Waltz. That is absolute rubbish all you have to do is go to Marcus Hilton on step two of a Reverse Turn in the Foxtrot.If I stopped it as the left foot comes alongside the supporting foot before stepping back you wouldn't be able to tell if it was a Waltz or a Foxtrot. Then go to Luca in the Waltz do the same. Except for the exaggerated sway you wouldn't know which dance it was looking at the height of the feet from the floor..The lesson to be learnt is don't believe what I say. Go and look for yourself.I will say this . If you don't get as high on your toes. that is both toes, as you can. You will fall back and what should be a step on three only becomes a prop. But again Go and look for yourself. So where are we. All steps are not the same and to say the Foxtrot is lower to the floor than the Waltz is rubbish.

here is something for you to consider.. from Scrivener...

In the whisk, he advises Nellie ( his wife ) to sway in the OPPOSITE direction as suggested by the rev. techn.. he states.. " That it sets the poise on the back foot for lady ", also , retaining her head in a closed position.

he also discounts CBM for man to the degree prescribed.. he calls it "only sympathetic ".

As we can readily see, one of the greates theorists ever, disagreed with standard principles of execution, which only goes to show.. theories are opinions.. they work for some , and not for others.

Technique in some cases, is there to be challenged . It is not an issue of agreement, but a matter of choice .

That's an interesting point about the Whisk. We'll try that direction of sway in our next session. I'm going to assume that the man either does the same or uses no sway.

As long as you're here, let me ask you something. Even though you don't preach from the technique books you must admit that they have their uses.

If you could have only one available, would you rather have your students use Moore's or Guy Howard's?

jj

6 of one .. 1/2 dozen of the other .

I have colleagues who swear by Guys.. one can achieve the desired result with either .

And , I do teach by the " book" when I do medal test work..but.. i ALWAYS try to show or explain alternative theories ( even to beginners ).