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+ View Older Messages

re: holding the second step on waltz longer
Posted by SocialDancer
8/5/2002  8:52:00 AM
It would be best to ask your teacher this question. The reply will then be matched to your current dance level and your teacher's intentions.

Each beat has notionally the same duration but advanced dancers will play with the timing to suit their own style and interpretation of the music.
Many teachers take the view that the second step requires more emphasis than the first in order to accomodate the swing, and it may be that your teacher is working on developing your swing.

Be aware though that many beginners cut the third beat short by closing the feet too quickly instead of in a smooth controlled manner. Keeping the toe of the closing foot pressed to the floor helps.
holding the second step in waltz
Posted by cal pauley
8/26/2002  11:21:00 PM
You don't really hold the second step, you are rising, and drawing the other leg in, which is done to help maintain balance. However you must be able to, one the second beat, draw the other leg where you want it, and be down on the leg you drew in, with all weight on it, so that the other leg is free and ready to take a power step out on the 3 beat. Being down on the 3rd beat is the most important thing in waltz from what I've experienced. You'll get off balance with your partner and also won't have a very good power stroke if you don't. But dragging the other foot in and settling your weight on it takes a while
waltz
Posted by Smtn2smileabt
8/10/2002  10:39:00 PM
THe emphasis is on the two beat. It isn't exactly longer. Most counts go 1...2.3. It goes 1.2......3 Hard to explain
re: holding the second step on waltz longer
Posted by Dronak
8/14/2002  8:48:00 AM
I think I'd agree with the other reply that said you should ask your teacher for a clarification. He/She will be able to give you a better idea of exactly what he/she wants you to try to do. However, I've been told the same sort of thing, but I think it's a bit more of a feeling than a real timing change. The swing is a big part of waltz and you're trying to get a pendulum type action. On the two count you're rising, but heading towards the peak, so your swing should be slowing down in much the same way a pendulum reaching its maximum amplitude slows down. So the idea is to feel like the two count is taking longer because of that slowing swing. You top out on the three count and the swing starts down again, speeding up as you lower and head into the one. A small section of my general notes on waltz says, "music accents 1, longest step is on 2, biggest step (quickest impulse) is on 3 (leads into the 1 beat). Want to feel like the 2 count is dragged out slightly so count isn't dead even (often are dragging free foot in on step 2s also)." A lot of dancing concepts can be difficult to explain in words. If you can someone like your teacher to show them to you, it will probably be better. I hope this is of some help though.

--
James Marshall
marshall@astro.umd.edu
http://www.astro.umd.edu/~marshall

re: holding the second step on waltz longer
Posted by Dronak
10/25/2002  8:11:00 AM
Originally posted by PantherSon:
The old style Viennese Waltz is played not very often socially, since not every one can enjoy it. But if it is played, I wonder how people dance? Do they step steadily as usual or a little bit syncopatedly?


I expect people would dance it slghtly off beat, matching the music. I can't say I'm familiar with VW being played slightly off beat to be authentic. Maybe if I heard some music like that I'd understand, but right now I don't. Anyway, VW has pretty clear, strong beats. If the music is being played only slightly off beat, chances are people are going to dance to what they hear. I think in a case like this it's a lot easier to tell where the beats are being played than where they're not, so people will probably dance slightly off beat, just the way the music is being played.

--
James Marshall
marshall@astro.umd.edu
http://www.astro.umd.edu/~marshall

Hovering ???
Posted by PantherSon
10/23/2002  9:52:00 PM
Interesting technical thread!
In the lastest reply if operabob, he showed an example of the coyote, very exciting, and I found that it's the same as what Dronak want to mention in his example of the pendulum. And many other members mentioned the hover technique. Hope that pc received more than what he had expected.

However, I want to raise another question: Does the Hover effect always occur in beat 2 of figures with basic 123 timing?

As far as I know, basic figures, e.g. Natural Turn, is danced with equal time for each step. 3 beats are equal, and no step take longer than others. But yes, we count One Twooooo Three , because the step "Twooooo" has the strongest swing, and dancers must feel it the longest step. I want to emphasize the FEELING of the step, not the time of the step itself. Beats are equal, so the steps.

The hover effect is described quite detail here, no need to repeat. I think this is for advanced dancers only, who have the ability to intepret their feelings of music by "experienced" technique. I don't think that champions hover on all beats "2" throughout their Waltzes. Hover is used to adorn the danced, and when we abuse it (in mostly figures), this will go bad.

Any idea?

Best regards,
MSN
re: holding the second step on waltz longer
Posted by operabob
10/25/2002  6:04:00 PM
Sorry, I should add:

The fact that the 2nd beat is slightly early while the 3rd is played slightly late gives the impression the 2nd beat is lasting longer.

I think the important thing is to dance "one to a bar". In effect as a musician I would play/sing each bar as a disctinct beat. I would not count 1-2-3 but rather a succession of long "ones".

But as I said, I don't have enough dance experience to say how dance teachers and advanced students deal with this.

OB
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