"The moral of the story is dont open up on the Progressive Link."

Indeed, you should not "open up" the progressive link or any other promenade position.

But the second step of the progressive link is by definition a promenade position.

You still confuse yourself because you think of promenade positions as being opened - but they are not.

SocialDancer. You have gone from a Tango to an Open Telemark. This shouldn't be done. Simply because in the Tango we do not have the luxury of being able to turn over our right foot as we do in an Open Telemark which is a Toe and isn't a Tango step anyway. The Progressive Link and the Open Telemark are as different as chalk and cheese. They should never be used as a comparison.

I thought we had finished with this thread a month ago, but...

Polished, the original comparison between a telemark and a progressive link was yours on 12/7/08 when you claimed one was in PP and the other was not.

The open telemark is included in the IDTA tango syllabus and is described in Guy Howard's book. Technique is the same as waltz/foxtrot except no rise and fall of course, and the timing matches other tango turns as QQS or may be QQQ if preceded by a something like a reverse pivot counted Q.

Nothing has altered . On a Progressive Link at the completion of the Link the knees of both couples are in contact. The ladies right knee is behind the mans left and touching . and her left knee is beind but touching the man's right. Both heads are in Promenade. In the Open Telemark just like the end of a Four Step. I would be open.There would be two floor board between our front foot enough to step through with the inside foot in Promenade.

"On a Progressive Link at the completion of the Link the knees of both couples are in contact. The ladies right knee is behind the mans left and touching . and her left knee is beind but touching the man's right. Both heads are in Promenade. In the Open Telemark just like the end of a Four Step. I would be open.There would be two floor board between our front foot enough to step through with the inside foot in Promenade."

At the end of the progressive link, you have not yet taken the step on the outside foot. When you do take that step, you will have to take it with enough space that you will then be able to get your inside feet through.

Neither at that point, nor in the open telemark, nor in any other promenade do you adopt a body position that could in any way be considered "open" relative to your partner. To do that, to turn off your partner, is not promenade - it is simply BAD DANCING.

Anonymous. You've lost me. If I dont allow space for my inside foot to come throught the centre how is it going to proceed. I certainly don't step over my ouside foot, do I. Don't let us forget that each of my feet are both pointing the same direction. In the Waltz also. In the Four Step as the man closes the RF to the LF he at the same time turns the lady into P.P.
Page 276.
None of this means that at the end of a Progressive Link we are open. If following the Link we were to go into a Whisk position. How bad would it look if we had opened at the end of the Link.

"Anonymous. You've lost me. If I dont allow space for my inside foot to come throught the centre how is it going to proceed."

As I just said, you do allow such space, but you must do so without opening your body to angle away from your partner, in this or in any other promenade.

Polished. Youv'e lost mean on this one. What do you mean by "open" ?

anymouse, I don't understand your obsession with the use of the word "open" to describe Promenade Position.

The definition of Promenade position in both Moore and Howard is quite clear. The man's right side and the lady's left side are in contact while their opposing sides are not. Why is the word "open" unacceptable in characterizing the side which are not in contact in this position?

Whatever may be happening with the shoulders, the partners' torsos will be what Howard describes as "turned out" (a better choice of words than "open" perhaps but they both mean the same thing). It is that turning out which allows the man's right and the lady's left foot to "step through." Without that turning out of the body (including the hips), the Chasse' from Promenade Position (or Promenade in the Tango) would be impossible to execute.



jj

"Whatever may be happening with the shoulders and hips, the partners' torsos will be what Howard describes as "turned out." It is that turning out which allows the man's right and the lady's left foot to "step through." Without that turning out, the Chasse' from Promenade Position would be impossible to execute."

Ultimately, the turning out or away from the partner is limited to the feet and perhaps the hips, with the topline remaining parallel to the partner in promenade as well as 'closed' postion.

Even Alex Moore, for all his comments that have been misinterpreted to suggest turning off the partner, recognized this. For example, see his description of the chasse from promenade with its specific note that the man's body is practically square to the wall throughout (the feet are of course aligned DW). That makes the bodies, or at least the upper bodies which seem to be the specific object of this note, parallel between the partners.

The simplest practical explanation is that promenade is the compromise between the need of the partner's knees to both work in a forwards direction, and the need of their toplines to remain parallel. On the more skilled dancers, this is hardly a compromise at all, as both goals are achieved without shortfall, but in less precise settins the bodies are often seen to diverge in order to facilitate the forwardish leg/knee action when flexibility is lacking.