Yes, I know. I've said so already:



Just because this alignment is the only one referred to on p147 of Moore's Ballroom Dancing, doesn't mean that it is the only correct alignment. Even that isn't strictly true, because he DOES refer to a whisk at a corner.

I'm not going to reply to you again on this subject: it's just getting embarrassing.

"Amount of turn. There is no turn for the man."

"How many more times do I have to draw your attention to what is the correct technique. You can read the amount of turn can't you. Which is none."

The question you are forgetting to consider is: No turn in WHICH PART of the body?

Obviously this cannot be describing no turn in the shoulders, because if it were danced that way then there'd be a 90 degree angle between the man's shoulders and the lady's. I don't think any of us would be happy with how that looked... or FELT.

I was very careful to state that I was talking about a turn of the upper body or SHOULDERS. That's not the body part for which the book specifies turn.

"Can you also look at the chart. Are the feet across the floor pointing diag to wall or not from the first to the last step."

Indeed, that is why I corrected your suggestion to be that the foot ALIGNMENT is maintained, though the direction of movement clearly is not.

"Also is the body travelling sideways along the LOD or isn't it. The chart is on page 148."

Only for the middle of the sequence. The first two, and last, steps go in other directions. But in the version drawn, the man's foot alignment is to DW throughout.

Also please note that you've just contradicted yourself. You claim there is no turn in the man's body, so it must still be facing DW. Movement down the LOD would therefore not be the body moving sideways as you claim, but rather diagonally forwards. If on the other hand you rotate your shoulders to keep them parallel to your partner (I sure hope so!) then the movement will be sideways relative to your shoulders, and diagonally forwards relative to your feet. That would give you some justification for thinking of it as as a sideways movement.

What do you mean "as I know"? I know better.

Of course you can turn a whisk as man. I rather thought that was exactly what I, and others have said. You write complete rubbish. Do you think we haven't noticed?

Clive Harrison. Are you saying that a Whisk following a Reverse Turn in the Waltz which starts facing diag to wall and will continue down the LOD after the Whisk has any turn of the body for the man on the Whisk which has one bar of music.

No, of course not. Why are you trying to put words into my mouth?

If a whisk is danced commencing DW after a Reverse Turn (probably the most common precede), man makes no turn, either with his feet, or body, if his following alignment (for, say, a chasse from PP) is going to be along LOD, facing DW.

But he could perfectly correctly choose to turn the whisk from the same precede and end facing DC, as previously stated. He wouldn't then follow with a chasse, but perhaps a weave.

What part of the standard technique do you not understand?

Astaire. There is no turn by the man on a Whisk. It's the lady that opens not the man. What you see is an illusion. Go to Learn The Dances and look read and record. P0lished : The illusion to look for is the Lady opening out on the whisk, she does NOT open out. You will see that Mellisa when turning her head to the right does an excellent job of keeping her right side to Johnathen.

Astaire. You might have to look at the Whisk and Chasse Combo to get a clear picture. Go to Progressive Chasse then Combo. See that the ladies right bust is just clear of the man's, and then it returns. There is one more thing that is being taught today. That is the lady on step two of the Whisk shapes the foot so that it is pointing in the new direction. The man does this on step two of a Reverse Fallaway also. There are other places as well. According to the book pages 149 and 150 for the man on the Whisk there is no turn. For the lady there is a 1/4 of a turn over the feet. The body turns slightly less. This is what you should be seeing. Its very good that you have selected this which is one of the most abused steps done Socialy. Pay paricular attention to the compession after the Whisk and before the Chasse. Se if you can copy. If you do you will be a sensation on the dance floor. Cheers

Being taught today? That's just the standard technique (alignment of lady pointing DC on 2), and it's nothing new. Even Moore says so.

"For the lady there is a 1/4 of a turn over the feet."

This should say "of" the feet, not "over" them, because the 1/4 is defined as the turn of the feet.

"The body turns slightly less."

Exactly, but that means that:

"for the man on the Whisk there is no turn."

Is not really the whole story. It's true that the man's FEET have no turn in the book version, but just the lady has body turns less, than man will have to have a corresponding body turns more.

If the man doesn't turn his upper body as much as the lady turns hers, the partnership will open into a V. Such an opening out is very sloppy and unpleasant looking, unless the hold is reconfigured from a closed hold to a clearly separated position as might be seen in the styles which allow breaking the hold.

Because the book talks mostly about foot alignments, it has very little to say about this issue; but you only have to watch dancers who try to ignore it to see how critical an issue it really is!

Anonymous. You still don't understand that the man with his alignment when he crosses behind will be in a Promenade position. He doesn't turn because he is already there. Why would he turn if he is already in the correct position.. Do it and see for yourself. Tell me where is your left side and shoulder pointing as you arrive on step two. It should be diagnal to the centre with the LOD . Now simply cross behind.Well what do you know, your side is still diagnal to the centre and you are in Promenade. From there after step one of the Chasse you will close it up.