"Looking at the amounts of turn as you suggest clearly suggests no turn - but does this refer to the turn at the end of foot placement or at the end of the step."

On step one there is not usually any turn of the foot between its placement and the end of the step, because the direction of movement is continued unaltered during step one.

"Having acheived a particular alignment on placement during the first part of the step there is nothing to say I cant make any turn or continue turning on the latter part."

What says you can't is the reality of the situations making turn of that foot inappropriate until the action has progressed beyond the formal end of step one, and well into what is defined to be part of step two.

"Indeed it would be deterimental to acheiving smooth continuous turn."

Turn of the feet is not continuous over all three steps. Most of it is concentrated during step two, though some remains for step three. Again this has to do with the continuation of the direction of movement unaltered throughout step one.

"it seems odd they should make a point of the delayed body turn in some instances but not others."

We should also consider that the dividing line between steps two and three falls in a different place with respect to the completion of the turn for the closing and passing cases. For the closing case, step 2 ends with the feet halfway closed, but for the passing case it ends at the instant when the feet are closed during the course of passing. That makes some actions that are part of step two in the passing case instead part of step three for the closing case.

Anonymous. If my left foot is flat on the floor and my right toe is to the side. Where would you say my weight would be. How exactly would you explain NFR on step one. Why is there NFR on one as stated in all the technique books. If you cannot find In Learn The Dances a place where the lady is still facing on the diagonal with the right foot to the side and the weight still over the LF there is something wrong with you.
Just explain the reason the technique books all say No Foot Rise On One. Is it because step two is placed without weight.

talking about the last three steps of a waltz reverse turn, say, for the man, on the inside of the turn. the question seems to be at what point is the heel of step 1 released. it is down (just ?) at the e/o 1 as the feet pass. but then it could come off as the moving foot moves towards its final position as step 2 is taken, or as the final position is reached [and weight transferred] or sometime after ie as step 3 is taken. whatever the answer it is obviously different for the corresponding steps in foxtrot where there isnt nfr and the ftwk is tht - so in the latter case the heel presumably comes up again almost immediately after it lowers ie as step 2 moves past the passing position. my inclination then is to think that in waltz the heel must stay down for longer, otherwise no distinction would be made between the two dances - but obviously there is a point where keeping the heel down becomes awkward - so again the question is at wahat point does heel release occur. a related question is what is the "alignment" of the standing foot as step 2 is placed ie does it stay where it was facing (backing)at the e/o 1.

Polished. you confuse me. on the one hand you seem to be a stickler for standardised technique but on the other hand you base a lot of your thinking on what todays professionals are doing which of course is different. i am personally more interested in the standardised technique because (a) that is what is being examined - undesirable though this situation might be, and (b) it is hard enough to understand the standardised technique leave alone all the variations, which to an extent just muddies the water. I agree it is interesting that technique is diverging, for better or worse i do not know, and may be many of the details make little difference, but i will not be able to decide until i have understand the original technique to the point where its foundations become clear.

"Talking about the last three steps of a waltz reverse turn, say, for the man, on the inside of the turn. the question seems to be at what point is the heel of step 1 released. it is down (just ?) at the e/o 1 as the feet pass. but then it could come off as the moving foot moves towards its final position as step 2 is taken, or as the final position is reached [and weight transferred] or sometime after ie as step 3 is taken."

On the inside of turn NFR step, the stan ding heel stays down until the moving foot has found its final position. On the video here, it appears to rise just as the moving foot stops moving across the floor, but before the moving foot does a little roll from the inside edge to to ball of foot - a roll which seems to include the final turn to the ultimate alignment.

"but obviously there is a point where keeping the heel down becomes awkward - so again the question is at wahat point does heel release occur."

I think you just named it - the point at which keeping it down is no longer advantageous.

"a related question is what is the "alignment" of the standing foot as step 2 is placed ie does it stay where it was facing (backing)at the e/o 1."

The standing foot is usually stationary as the moving foot is placed, but may then rotate against the floor as the weight arrives on the moving foot.

Interested. When anonymous says in paragraph two 8/14/08
The standing heel stays down untill the moving foot has found its final position.That is exactly right, at last.
This is a learning thing. I will ask you why is it neccessary to do it that way. Why not raise the heel imediatally as the person on the outside of the turn does.
I will also ask out of the five dances which three have the same action throughout. And again if this is not done correctly what is the end result.
Anonymouse . It's good to see that at last you've finaly clicked
Clive .It would be more correct to say. Between step one and two
For a bit of additional information. In his book Victor Silvester who introduced the Natural Turn says. For the lady make 3/8ths of a turn between steps 1 and 2.Step three doesn't get a mention. On the second half of the turn for the man step six doesn't have any turn. I'm not saying its right or wrong, just what is written. and how it was being performed for years.
Being a musician as well as a Professional dancer. I think if it had been around Victor would have recorded
" Look What They've Done To My song Ma "!!!.

"Anonymouse . It's good to see that at last you've finaly clicked"

The only thing that's changed is that you've finally decided to actually read what someone else wrote, instead of pretending that they said something different than what they actually did.

Nobody seems to be capable of answering the question I posed. Why is there a NFR. What will be the result if the lady rises on step one of a Natural Turn. Or step one of the first step of a Quarter Turn in the Quickstep
Or Step one in the Natural Turn V. Waltz.
Probably the V. Waltz is the most vulnerable. Come on you experts. Lets hear it.
Just reading through some of the earlier writing. Guys there is no swing onto step two of a Reverse Turn in the Foxtrot. Has any thought been given to what would happen to the lady if there was.

"Guys there is no swing onto step two of a Reverse Turn in the Foxtrot."

On the contrary, swing plays a critical role in this step.

It's more obvious in the man where it is a large full body action, but there is swing of the hips in the lady as well.

To answer your other question, NFR is used on the inside of any turn in which the inside partner swings up to the outside one. In the feather finish, the man is not swinging up to the lady as in the other turns, so he does not have NFR to stay "under" her, instead the situation develops to one where she swings under him.

Anonymous. Re you last statement. Is this related to the need for a variable step size and need for a smaller step size when swinging up to the outside one.

Good questions Polished. I would say W and QS are similar FT is different in the respects discussed. In outline, I'd say to do with the need for progression in foxtrot (ie heel release can be used to give a longer stride in ft) but keeping it down longer helps delay the rise and fall in waltz.