Back to the question regarding the shaping on the oversway, I thought you might be interested to know that we just did the Oversway in tango tonight. When our teacher showed it to us he explained that there were two main positions to it. The first on step 3 was the leftward shape Jonathan was describing from the beginning and the second on step 4 was the rightward shape I originally thought we were talking about. Had this topic come up a few days later, I probably wouldn't have asked about it. However, since Jonathan cleared things up for me before my class, as soon as my teacher said there were two positions, I knew what they were going to be and the basic shapes of them. Thanks for the information. It's always good to learn as much as possible and having a variety of sources usually helps, too.

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James Marshall
marshall@astro.umd.edu
http://www.astro.umd.edu/~marshall

Thank you James and Jonathan for clearify many details about "oversway".

I have not learned throwaway oversway, but I have seen it done many times. It is truly a beautiful dnace pattern.

As far as oversway and drop oversway, I too love to hear some description about them. Hope Jonathan would clearify this. Thanks...

Keh Gough

Ah, now it makes sense. I wasn't even thinking about a preparatory shape (shows how much I know ). You've cleared things up for me, thanks.

For reference, the precedes in tango are listed as "As for Open Reverse Turn Lady outside". The Oversway is listed as four steps, the first two being basically as a Reverse Turn with the lady closing her heels on the second step. The third step goes back and sideways for the man and on step four the position is held and the L knee flexes.

I think I've heard of three different types of oversway now -- Oversway, Drop Oversway, and Throwaway Oversway. Can you give a brief description of the differences between them? I have an idea on the distinctions, but it might be easier for someone who knows to describe them rather than have my semi-guesses up here.

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James Marshall
marshall@astro.umd.edu
http://www.astro.umd.edu/~marshall

We've had some discussions in class about which side of the man's body the lady is supposed to be on for different moves. We didn't do the oversway (yet?) though. When I wrote "towards the man's left side" I meant it more in the sense of the direction of the figure than whether or not the lady crosses the man's cetner line. I don't know if that's any clearer, but I understand what you wrote about it, so I don't think we need to discuss that particular point further.

I've only had limited exposure to this figure, so I'm sure I don't completely understand it. We did it once in group classes in tango and another time in a workshop on picture lines in open work (probably a bit beyond me, but good for future reference). Maybe the rightward rotation makes more sense when you do it correctly. I'll probably have to do it a number of times, or ask my teachers about it since they can fix me in person, before I get it. You're right that it does seem foreign right now, but if I get it taught in some more detail later, it will probably make more sense then.

I wasn't actually disagreeing with you before because I don't know the move well enough to do so. However, for tango where it's a gold syllabus move, the book says that the man turns almost 3/4 to L between 1-3 and the body turns slightly more on 4. The popular variations book for standard seems to say the same thing; e.g, waltz figure 45 (oversway to promenade, left whisk to standing spin) says on the oversway part "lower L heel and let L knee relax as body overturns to L and sways to R..." If the Oversway is actually supposed to have a rightward body rotation for the man, can you explain why the books apparently say the man's body overturns left? I think that's one of the things that's confusing me. I know the books don't always have all the details, but in this case it seems to contradict what you've said.

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James Marshall
marshall@astro.umd.edu
http://www.astro.umd.edu/~marshall

I gotcha now. We're talking about two different parts of the oversway. The leftward shape I was describing is normally taken first, and then the rightward shape. I never mentioned the second shape because I thought it was more likely that you were misinterpreting the first shape, as opposed to omitting it.

With the Waltz example, the text you quoted actually describes the second half of an oversway (sometimes referred to as a "drop" oversway). What they've done here is put step 3 of a Closed T-mark in place of the first shape.

The reason that this particular example works is because the third step of a T-mark is actually very similar to the first shape of the oversway. The most notable similarity is that your left side is projected forward on both. The man's hips on a T-mark rotate slightly farther than his top, opening the position up to PP. Whether you turn your top to the right or your base to the left, you end up more or less in the same position.

In the Tango example, I'm not sure what figure leads into it, but I'm assuming that it's a left-turning figure such as a Closed T-mark or Left-Turning Rock (Reverse Pivot). Again, we're looking at the third step of the figure being a sort of an alternative to the first shape, which is still ultimately almost the same thing.

You have to realize that the first shape is basically an over-swayed promenade position, and as such it has many of the same principles. The man's shape in PP is such that his left side is projected forward. The simplest way to achieve PP, then, is to have him rotate his left side forward... in other words, turn to the right. But it is possible to turn to the left to PP, as in an Open T-mark. In this case, the man's base will turn more than his top, leaving his left side projected forward.

I probably should have also mentioned that when turning to the right the top will rotate more than the base, but I was trying to avoid too much detail. It was pretty complicated already.

Anyway, my suggestion to you is to try learning the static entrance (movement straight to side, body turning right) to get a feel for the first position. This sets you up beautifully for the drop part of the oversway. Then later on down the line if you want to enter with a left-turning figure, you have experience with the proper leading shape.

When you do try the Waltz or Tango example, stop on your third step and check your shape. Your left side should be projected forward, and sway to left (both looking in PP). Now you're ready to take the second shape.

Enjoy!

Sincerely,
Jonathan