Hi, Belle:

It is very refreshing to read your postings. One thing I regreted in my life is I had never asked Donna Madrano to dance, not even once.... She is much taller than me and I had taken many classes thru the University of Nevada, Las Vegas's ballroom dancing programs where she was the instructor. Yes, "afraid" is the word you had mentioned. Intimidation prevented me from asking her to dance. She passed away in spring of 1998 at the age of 39 with bone cancer. A great loss to our dance community and university's program.

Regards,

Keh Gough

Without realizing it, I had uttered a profundity... Referring to Dronak's reference to my earlier message, each person is different, and the reasons for turning a beginner down are not all the same. So, it never hurts to ask. And be nice and gracious when you thank them for the dance, they are sure to remember it and ask you again, just because you were so gracious the previous time. At least, I do.

Of course, some people are just immature and dare I say 'jerks', and I have met a few that decline a dance without giving a reason. My instuctor, when I was a novice, taught me the etiquette of asking and being asked. Some of these where: a) always say 'please' when asking for a dance, b) never decline a dance to one person and then dance with another, c) never decline a dance without giving a reason - even a lame one such as 'I wish to sit out this dance' - but if you truly wish to dance with them, ask for a later dance so they will understand your intentions.

But there may be other reasons as personal hygiene and reasons to consider risk of bodily injury that might also play a role.

For a incomplete list of dance etiquette, check out this link. I believe Ron has already advertised his book on this server. I was lucky enough to have read the online version of it before Ron decided to make a book out of it, and charge us all for it...

I think every body should read it, and apply it. I hope some of you will find it useful.
http://www.outdancing.com/Ballroom/

Good luck and keep dancing.
Sri.

PS: Wait, enjoying is having a great time.. Sorta redundant was I!! Duh!!

Sri.

Wow, this too is amusing. First, women complained that some so-called advanced dancers turned them down indiscretely, and now men have their turn at grinding the axe talking about 'parasites'... While I won't be that cruel and blunt, my opinion on this issue is this.

Never turn down a dancer without good reason for it, and be polite for it. I have seen many novice dancers, with whom I used to dance infrequently in the beginning, turn into the proverbial swan. A couple have even mentioned to me that I appeared stand-offish when they first started dancing and assumed I was stuck up - perhaps owing to my propensity to stand by myself sometimes and watch the dancers on the floor, in that patented ballroom/ballet dancers pose, i.e. stretched neck, straight back and expanded shoulders..

However, I never refuse a dance when asked. The reason being that it is but 3 minutes of my time, and as impatient as I otherwise am, I can afford that for purpose of civility. The truly 'incompetent' ones seldom come back for a repeat performance. I think that one dance helps them feel good about their dancing, and that is a small price to pay for me.

I must add my amusing story to this melee. A certain lady of the aforementioned category, and whom I have watched dance before in some horror, once approached me for a Viennese Waltz. For similar reasons earlier expressed by someone else, I hesitated, because I did not want to do little mini-circles on the floor and hold up the others. And the lady interjects, "Oh, if you don't know it, then we shouldn't dance. It is a rather hard dance". I had to supress a chuckle, and an intense urge to tell her that I would take her for a spin if I only I thought she was capable of following me. Instead I smiled, and asked her for another slower dance later. She never came back, I wonder why. Perhaps my thoughts are too easily read on my face..

Anyway, that is all the *****ing I intend to do. Keep dancing folks, and have a good time.

Sri.

Unfortunatley, Rice, you have observed correctly. Many, but not all, more advanced dancers feel they are above dancing with lower level dancers. And this is not just with "Advanced" dancers, but often with people with only a few months more experiance. I had a heated discussion one night with a man who refused to dance with any one that was not in Hustle "Level Four" (an abritary designation of a local social dance school). This person remained ademant that he had his standards, not realizing that at competition standard schools very few poeple would dance with him using his critieria. This is just an example, but it is illustrative. I have found that at comps, and even the weekly dances at schools, that asnobbish peaking order is practiced. Again, this is not by all. There are people who realize that the only way a dancer can improve is with practice with one of more polished skills and who realize that they themselves were lower in the ranks once. These are usually the people who are dancing for the love of the dance and not for their self vanities. Unfortunately ballroom does draw a somewhat narcissitic crowd. Don't dispare though. Just keep practicing, showing up and asserting yourself. Remember, as in dance as with life, looking good is the best revenge and it's so much fun when those who once thought they were above dancing with a newcomer find you an attractive partner prospect.

As others have already said, this does happen at least sometimes, but I don't know how prevalent it is. My dance experience is primarily with a college crowd and at least with my crowd, this doesn't seem to be a very big problem. Sure people like dancing with others of their own level, but people also don't turn down dance requests from people at lower levels just because they're at a lower level. Everyone is a beginner at some point; we all remember that fact and what being a beginner dancer is like. Some people are better than others about asking beginners to dance, but you kind of have to expect that because everyone's different.

I sort of liked Sriram's previous comment regarding someone who doesn't ask beginners to dance but also won't turn them down if they ask for a dance. It touches on the fact that there are many factors a person considers before asking someone else to dance. And these factors as well as their relative weights are bound to change from person to person. If a more advanced dancer doesn't ask a beginner to dance, the reason may not be that the person is a beginner. OK, in some cases it may be, but in general everyone's mind works differently and I don't think you can really say that a decision is based totally on one factor (dance level here) when there are a variety of other factors present.

------------------
James Marshall
marshall@astro.umd.edu
http://www.astro.umd.edu/~marshall

This is happening on the social scene. It is unfortunate and shows a lack of understanding not just about the social aspects of going to a dance but also about the fundamental techniques of dancing. Some good social dancers can get snobbish but that is just what they are "good social dancers". The truely great dancers are either actively competing (or used to compete) or are professionally involved in dancing in some way and they have nothing to prove on the social dance floor. They will never refuse or shy away from dancing with anyone. In fact an experienced male dancer of this type gets great pleasure from making a beginner look good on the floor ( a mark of his prowess).

The unfortunate thing is that these dancers seldom go to social dancers (for various valid reasons, not snobbery). However if you happen to know that such a dancer is at your dance don't be afraid of a refusal to dance.

So what I'm saying to you is that those so called "good social dancers" who are snobbish on the social scene are really not that good in the bigger scheme of things. Take heart in that when you see unnecessary oneupmanship from those pretenders.

As a gentlemen I never refuse a dance when asked, also i never turn down a dancer with or without a reason ,because we all have start as a beginner, remember this.
OK, to dance with girl that move like a 38 t truck is not much fun but as a gentlemen its a duty to do minimum one dance.

The only exeptions for me are "high" experiance dancers that think they become next "world champions" only want use somebody real experianced for a little show case. They get simply a NO. If I wanna show my skills i do this at the right place, at competion and never while social dancing. I think doing a "little" show case at a social dance party is very very embarrassingly.

I agree that this does happen. Unfortunately, I've seen the reversal (advanced lady refusing to dance with less experienced male),too. This is less common, as the ladies in my area usually never turn down a dance, as they are thrilled to be out there, no matter what level her male partner is dancing. Personally, as an advanced dancer, I take advantage of dancing with lower level or newcomer ladies- it gives me a chance to work on my Bronze level steps/footwork (keeping my basics in check). When dancing with advanced level partners, I mainly work on floorcraft and leading. More advanced men should pay more attention to this and to be more sensitive to their lady partners, as they may not know, or are unable to follow advanced steps.

Thanks for all the responses. It gives us an idea on what to expect when we attend organized socials for ballroom students. Our instructor encourages us to attend such parties to practice leading and following with other people as well as floorcraft.