I started picking up Viennese waltz (American style) relatively recently, so it's still the weakest of my smooth dances. I can dance it passably with my instructors or with an advanced partner in a social setting, but I'm in trouble when I get a less experienced partner who doesn't drive forward on her half of a natural or reverse turn. We end up underrotating, and I find myself either switching rapidly back and forth between natural and reverse turns to keep us from curving too far off line of dance, or doing lots of hesitations, which obviously are less than wonderful for everyone else on the floor.

Anything more elegant I can do to compensate? Or is this problem a likely sign that I'm doing something wrong? (My instructors don't seem to think so, but never hurts to get a second opinion.) What do you guys do when you dance Viennese socially?

I have a feeling I just need to learn to massively overrotate my part of the turns -- right now when I do that, it doesn't look very graceful, but I can at least work on that.

Steve,

This is going to sound crazy, but rotation is the last thing you need. The more you try to rotate, the harder it becomes to pass your partner. And it is passing the partner, not rotating around them, that makes the progression possible.

Now that's not to say that you shouldn't try to turn, period. But I can tell from the way you describe it that the problem is not the lack of rotation. So beleive me when I say that the question is really: "How do you increase the progression?". Here are a few ideas:

Regardless of who you're dancing with, progression is stifled on the leading step when you turn the body and leg against the direction of progression. And once the leading step is stifled, the 2 and the 3 have no power to go anywhere. So rather than trying to turn as you step forward or back, just step straight ahead. Once the foot is placed, then you can begin rotation.

Step 2 is yet another potential trouble spot. This has more to do with direction than rotation. Many beginners attempt to move "around" their partner on 2 instead of "through". This causes them to veer the side step towards the wall (or center) instead of down LOD. Again, the goal is to pass your partner, so every inch you veer sideways towards the wall or center is an inch of progression you've lost. Make sure that stsp 2 goes in exactly the same direction as step 1... straight down LOD. In fact, because of the later rotation, you should feel as though step 2 begins as a forward step which gradually becomes a side step as it is taken.

On the back step, while you do need to continue moving backwards (in order that you don't block your partner's progression), you also need to keep in mind that your partner does need some space to move through you. This requires that you not step absolutely straight back, but rather back and slightly sideways. In other words, make a lane change. If you both step into the same lane on count 4, your partner will be forced to veer out of your way on count 5 (as described above). And this, too, robs you of progression.

And finally, some notes on dancing with beginners: Since they will tend to make all of the mistakes I described above, you might need to accomodate them slightly. One way you can help is to coax more progression on counts 1 and 4 by diminishing the rotation and increasing progressive power yourself. If you try to force your partner to rotate on 1 and 4, you make it harder for them to take a juicy step. A beginner may not take a really good driving action on 1, but you contribute to its demise when you force them to twist concurrently. Move your body progressively, and you'll at least get the best they have to offer, which is probably better than you think.

When you're on the back half of the turn, you can accomodate further by making a more dramatic lane change on the back step. And if she's really wimpy about moving through you on her side-close (or side-cross), you can always dance a toe pivot on 5,6. Counts 5 and 6 are really the only counts that you truly have zero control over how much she moves, and so if she's not going anywhere for you, the toes pivot gives you the smallest possible base for her to have to work around.

By first improving your own technique, and then adjusting it to accomodate your partner, you should be able to dance V Waltz with almost anyone. And if not (and in the meantime), there's always our friend the Hesitation!

Sincerely,
Jonathan

Hi Steve,

I see that your from my part of the world.

As a lady, I can tell you the one major problem with followers in Viennese is that they don't keep their heads out. Can completely kill the energy. But it's a matter of trust, I know, I've worked long and hard on it.

But you're in a great area to practice V. Waltzes, as we have no less than 3 organizations, that regularly hold vintange dance parties, where a good percentage of the dances are V. Waltzes.

PEER's - www.peers.org (theme and location changes every month, but costumes are not required, and best of all Live Music) Dicken's Ball, Dec 8th, San Mateo.

Gaskell's (aka Ye Gods) - www.gaskellball.com Always Victorian, but live band (once again costumes not required) Dec 27th, Oakland.

Friday Night Waltzes - www.fridaynightwaltz.com Dress down (a lot of people in jeans), and DJ'ed. But good in-depth lessons, and a wide range of music. Mainly V. Waltzes, but with a good dash of other dances, such as Swings and Cha-Cha's, thrown in. Dec 14, Palo Alto.

My instructor says the Vintage V. Waltz looks more like a ballet-type waltz, but it's easier on neophytes. Some of the organizers would probably have my head for saying that last comment. But, because it is different enough from "modern" V. Waltz, I'm forbidden to go to these dances right before a competition. But they are a lot of fun, you can meet some interesting people, and you definitely learn all about floor craft. Not to mention the survivor skills of dealing with a wide range of dance levels.

If you happen to go to the Dicken's Fair and Fezziwigs there, you will actually see a lot of the regulars, and most of the organizers from the above groups.

Hi, Steve:

A couple of things to check if you are doing it correctly.

1). Consider V. Waltz as 123, 456 in tempo rather than just 123, 123. Here, no matter on a natural turn or reverse turn. As a man, you are dancing to pass the lady on 123, while on 456 you will dance in a way without progressing(just turning) to allow the lady to pass you.

2). Keep your knees relaxed (bent just a little) through out the whole dance. You will find you have a whole lot of control in this dance. No rise and fall in V. Waltz at all (keep telling yourself that).

Now if you are going to dance with a lady(beginner) who don't understand the above priciples, good luck to you.

Keh ;-p

WAIT!! Isn't the dance you all speak about called the Vietnamese Waltz???

Vintage Viennese Waltz is indeed different. And yes, it is easier on beginners. Every once in a blue moon I get a wedding couple who insists on using a particular piece of music for their wedding song, which happens to be a VW. If I can't get them to choose a slower Waltz as an alternative, I teach vintage instead.

Vintage differs from Modern in that the driving step on count 1 is to the side, not forward & back, and there is no cross. The natural turn is much easier than the reverse, and is taught first. Beginners have a much easier time taking a larger step on 1 because it's not toward their partner. Steps on counts 2 and 3 are taken almost with feet together, giving the person on the outside of rotation a much better chance of getting around. It's much less technical and does not require the same degree of precision, and for that reason, I prefer it for students who do not want to put the time or energy into learning proper standard technique.

Jonathan

Steve,

I agree with you dancing with women who don't drive their forward steps can be challenging. As Keh mentioned you can reduce your step size on 456 to allow the woman to pass. However, this may mean almost standing on the spot if she doesn't move much. You may still have to use hesitations and changes to adjust your positions.

Personnally, I am very choosey about who I dance VW with. VW is not much fun if I have to do all the work.

Blair