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H eel pull steps - how big ?
Posted by paulw
3/12/2008  10:54:00 AM
can anyone fill me in on the reaasons behind the different sizes of the various Hpull steps in the foxtrot )nat turn) quickstep (nat turn with hesitation and natural turn at a corner) and waltz (natural hesitation change)
Re: H eel pull steps - how big ?
Posted by GermanDanceTeacher
3/12/2008  4:03:00 PM
What different sizes?
My ISTD Ballroom Technique says at all of them ("to side small step").
Re: H eel pull steps - how big ?
Posted by paulw
3/12/2008  6:19:00 PM
What different sizes?


Oh yes - I forgot the ISTD book was different !

In the Guy Howard book it is

waltz and foxtrot: side small step
q/s (nat tn with hesitation): side (no size specified, so presume its not a small step)
q/s (nat tn at corner): almost closes
Re: H eel pull steps - how big ?
Posted by SocialDancer
3/12/2008  6:34:00 PM
The quickstep hesitation turn uses a wider step than the waltz because of the higher speed of the dance and the greater momentum to be absorbed.

For the foxtrot natural turn and the QS natural at a corner there is no hesitation brush step of the LF, and in this case the faster QS needs a tighter turn to maintain balance and smoothness of flow, so the heel pull is smaller.
Re: H eel pull steps - how big ?
Posted by paulw
3/12/2008  7:20:00 PM
how does a wider side step help absorb the energy ? i guess the reaction force of the floor on the RF would absorb the energy and the effect of the step size may then be analogous to a lever effect ?? maybe that is the reason for the H/IE footwork too (ie to maximise reaction torque in a direction that would oppose the body rotation).



as for the very small pull in the corner q/s: my suggestion is it's to keep the feet on the linear track ie so they might brush past one another on the next forward step in the absence of a hesitation brush (not a problem in the foxtrot because the LF has more time to track during the next forward step).

i am not sure what you mean by tightness. if you mean amount of turn then that is the same in both quickstep figures, and so can't be a factor. but if you mean size of step - fine - but that just seems like restating the problem.
Re: H eel pull steps - how big ?
Posted by SocialDancer
3/13/2008  4:28:00 AM
"it's to keep the feet on the linear track ie so they might brush past one another on the next forward step in the absence of a hesitation brush (not a problem in the foxtrot because the LF has more time to track during the next forward step)."

Yes that is effectively what I meant but you have put it better.
The amount of turn is the same but the distance traveled is smaller which to me makes the turn tighter. Perhaps a better term would be - more compact.
Re: H eel pull steps - how big ?
Posted by anymouse
3/13/2008  10:57:00 AM
"how does a wider side step help absorb the energy ?"

If you place the step outside of your center of gravity, you can be briefly and slightly off balance, which will exert a force slowing your arrival over that foot. It's not the kind of thing that would require any conscious thought, you've been doing it to control your movement since you were two or three years old.

But you can also soften the knee enough as you approach a step that this effect does not happen. Both are choices in your toolkit.
Re: H eel pull steps - how big ?
Posted by Serendipidy
3/13/2008  8:07:00 PM
Has anybody noticed that if you freeze frame as the feet pass on step 5 6 Reverse in the Foxtrot you wouldn't know whether they were doing a Waltz or a Foxtrot. It is the same as the foot comes to a position under the body on the Feather Step, both feet are together and on the toes. Its worth watching how high on the toes our better dancers are at this point also.
What brought this on is the mention of the feet tracking.
Re: H eel pull steps - how big ?
Posted by anymouse
3/13/2008  9:11:00 PM
"Has anybody noticed that if you freeze frame as the feet pass on step 5 6 Reverse in the Foxtrot you wouldn't know whether they were doing a Waltz or a Foxtrot."

While there are some supeficial similarities, there is a vast difference between an action that closes the feet at the completion of rise, and one where the feet are temporarily closed as they pass when the body will continue. One is an ending of a swing, the other is just a signpost on the way.

You need to cultivate an instinctive awareness of this difference, because as a dancer you should already be making the nature of the action clear to your partner during the first step of the measure. You can't just do generic and change the ending, you have to enlist every stage of the action in creating the ultimate goal of this figure, not some other one.
Re: H eel pull steps - how big ?
Posted by Serendipidy
3/14/2008  2:48:00 AM
Anonymous. If you take a close look at the man's steps on 5 6 of a Reverse Turn, which is the part under discusion. You will see a momentory pause as the feet come together for the man. This allows the lady to comfortably move past the man into the Three Step or whatever.
Incidently you should have already risen before the feet come together. Which you can also see on steps 2 3 of a Reverse Turn. And as per the instructions page 175 the man on step 4 will have foot rise. As he obviously will on step one into a Reverse.
Rise at the end of one is Foxtrot. Not commence to rise at the end of one that's Waltz.
There are Basic faults which a knowledgable judge will look for. Above are a couple of them.

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