Is the Open Telemark in waltz, in my own words, described as...

...a three-quarters, three-step, quick reverse turn, with no closing action, where for the man's part, he starts facing diag. center on the first step, forward with LF, as he starts making a turn to the L, with CBMP(1),

then lets his RF point back to the centre as he continues to turn L, as the RF pivots to help him continue to turn; at that point, his body will end up pointing diag. to wall more than his RF(2), and

he ends with his LF going forward, diag. to wall, outside partner, body turning less, and again in CBMP(3)?

Can I correct one thing. Although technically correct (from the technique books) the left foot commences in line with the lady with both using CBM to start the turn, it is possible to dance it using the left foot outside partner on her left side. The left foot will then be in CBMP.

Also, it is possible to commence the the Telemark from PP, but the timing and footwork will be different.

Just a couple of small corrections:

Although the feet don't close with a change of weight, the left foot does in fact brush to the right foot without weight, before opening to step 3.

Step 1 is taken with CBM, not CBMP. This is an important distinction.

I would try to delay the majority of rotation of the right foot so that it is still moving in a forward direction as it approaches step 2. The best verbal description I can give of step 2 is "forward through a curved path".

You mention the body turning more than the foot on 3... actually, just the opposite is true. In promenade position, the feet are turned open more than the hips, and the hips are turned open more than the upper body.

Step 3 is not in CBMP. Step 4 is.

I hope this helps.

Sincerely,
Jonathan Atkinson www.ballroomdancers.com

Yes you are quite right, that the last step of a figure eg feather step in foxtrot (being the 1st step of the next figure) should show lowering. If you have been trained well (as I was) then this lowering should be demonstrated as a half step. If this is done and is the only reason for using the 1st step of the next figure, then there is no point including it as part of the previous figure. I'm not sure, but I guess that's why the IDTA dropped the ISTD system of charting. I think the IDTA also changed the system so that each fgure was discrete with no overlap, which is reallyt the way it should be.

Just to repeat - if you have been trained well candidates should know there is a lowering at the end of the figure. Equaly, they should also know from both experience and technical knowledge that the next step of say the progressive chasse in Quickstep is in CBMP outside partner.

Great this discussion!

It sounds as if there is some confusion here between an Open and a Closed Telemark, particulary on step 4. In an Open Telemark, step 4 is in Promenade Position (PP). In a Closed Telemark, step 4, as Man, is Outside Partner (OP).

The right foot does move forward into step 2. This is the normal method of moving a foot into position for any turn where the feet are open on the weight change, as opposed to when they close to complete a turn.

In keeping a good dance frame and position relative to one's partner, the feet always turn more than the body on Promenade steps. It is important that the right foot also turns to point DW when turning to position the left foot for step 3.

Hope this helps.
Phillip Stephens

The commencing position of both the basic open and closed Telemarks are the same (ie facing daig to centre). However, it is possible to commence both from promenade position. The timing would then be 12&3 for the Open Telemark and 12&31 for the closed Telemark, with the right foot in CBMP outside lady. The problem very often with the ISTD technique for standard dances is the last step mentioned in a figure is the first step of the next figure. Although I trained using the ISTD technique, Guy Howard's IDTA version is probably better and less confusing.It doesn't link figures in this way.

ISTD syllabus is sometimes confusing because last step of a figure is sometimes the first step of the following figure.

however, it normally happens on the figure man ending OP and CBMP. it's a good way to remind you.

if you are TOO familar with the IDTA syllabus only and are required to give the feet pos. of outside change into a Nat. Turn. in this case, u may fall into the trap that forgetting first step of Nat. Turn is in CBMP OP.

for non OP ending figures like any feather finish ending figures in foxtrot. ISTD are also one step more. the objective is to show the lowering is taken as next "extra" step. e.g. foxtrot rev. turn. "lower e/o 6" means the lower is taken as step 7 is taken. there is no step 7 in IDTA. IDTA interpretor may "drop" on step 6 before next step is taken.

IDTA is convenient in precede and follow while ISTA is good in reminding u the technique.

my point is that both syllabi have strenght and weakness. and u need to understand well.