I always thought that Lindy was just the basic name for what is now widely called east coast swing. I was just told by a fellow who was taking lessons that Lindy has a different timing, being 1 2 3 1 2 vs 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2. Any comments from the experts?

Pardon my ignorance, but I've taken two Lindy classes so far, so I'm not exactly very good at it, but the impression I got was that when doing the Lindy, you're supposed to be crouching of sorts. That is, you're 'getting down' but your back is still straight. You're not supposed to be standing up straight because it looks very stiff.

Hi all,
I have a funny story about Lindy Hop. I'm a ballroom teacher, and took a Lindy Hop lesson from some Swedish people last year. I had a lesson with my coach afterward, so I was wearing a leotard and long skirt. Well, of the hundred or so people in the room, I was with a partner named Dai, from England I think. He said to me, "You look a little over-dressed for Lindy", and I explained that I had a coaching session right afterward. Just then the instructor said, "Some of you look a little Ballroom-y". He was really talking about our stiffness, as Jonathan alluded to in another post. There's a very different style between East Coast and Lindy. Actually, I was uncomfortable with Lindy. I took dance position, and the men seemed to 'crouch' down. It's because they were just learning I think, and trying to imitate what they thought they were seeing, a much more relaxed dance position. Anyway, it was a lot of fun, I haven't done any aerials (I think I'm too big, 5'7", 115 lbs.) I like to watch Lindy when it's done well. ta ta

Well... first Lindy Hop is not a part of East Coast Swing in any way. As you seam to know, the "basic" in ECS is the 1&2-3&4-5-6. And off of that you can do 6-count steps. In Lindy Hop the "basic" is usualy considered to be this little thing called the "swing out" this step (although Lindy Hop's basic move) just might be the hardes swing move to perfect and get great. The count for this is 1-2-3&4-5-6-7&8. And off of this you can do many, I mean many 8-cound steps (including the Charelston, you've probaly seen it, its two dancers side by side and there are a lot of kicks back and forth, it's great). Now East Coast Swing is popular b/c in most respects it is 'easier' and Lindy Hop by usualy standard (and In my opinion is harder and come after you learn key "devices" in East Coast (like how to hold you partener and how to lead/follow).

Just for further reference "Jitterbug" is another name for East Coast Swing. Now Lindy Hop came first, I might be wrong but early 30's (someone if you know...) and East Coast (Jitterbug) was developed durring the late 40's and 50's mainly to 'jump-blues' and rock. But I have heard that durring the golden years of Lindy Hop there was a 6-count step (to switch into and out of while dancing Lindy Hop), but I'm not to shure. If you have any more questions (and when I started I had MANY... it is really confusing who created what?... what step goes with what?... when do I dance this?... and many many more) you can email me or to keep this site going you should probaly post it here... but I hope this gives you some help. Keep winging, and keep this dance alive!

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MATT BROGAN
Snow8517@email.com

Yes, Lindy and East Coast Swing are very different beasts. But it has to do with more than just timing. There are also stylistic considerations, which to me is the more important issue.

It is true that EC Swing generally uses 6-count basic steps, while Lindy tends to use more 8-count basic steps. But you can generally use variations or more complex figures in either dance that use any number of counts... 6, 8, 10, 22... whatever!

Jonathan

Yes, there is a timing difference. Since I'm so indoctrinated in East Coast I have difficulty adjusting to Lindy except for a few patterns. Must work on this more.

I attend these Lindy Hop dances where Lindy is the main feature, but no one has any problem with my leading pure East Coast though

"Wherever you go, you represent the team. You will talk like, you will look like and you will act like the most dignified professional in your hometown" - Vince Lombardi to his players.

To jgengin--
My husband and I do the Lindy, and we really want to learn some aerials. After reading your post about the importance of height/weight ratios, I was wondering if you could tell me what you think of this.
I'm 5'6" without shoes, and for swing I usually wear a wedge, so add an inch and a half to that. My husband is 6'0" even. I weigh 112 pounds. He's about 170.
Is height about as important as weight? Am I too tall for aerials?
Thanks,
Joy

This is a reply to Joy Kelley:

To answer hopefully in an exhaustive manner, I will address two different aspects related to your question:

1. Is 5' 6" too tall for a 112 Lbs lady to execute aerials? Not necessarily. For beginner aerials, which typically do not involve a rotation in the air, there should be no problem, even when the weight of her male partner exceeds hers by only 40 Lbs. For intermediate difficulty aerials involving a rotation in the air, she might still be able to perform relatively well with a strong partner; however, an accidental insufficient grouping of her body (see my previous monogram on aerials) may turn out to be much less forgiving than if she was 5'2" tall or shorter. Remember: Mathematically speaking, rotational inertia is proportional to the mass of the body and proportional to the square of the distance of body parts with respect to the axis of rotation. The taller and/or less grouped the lady is and the more strength and weight (for stability reasons) are required from the male partner to control the aerial. In the case of advanced complexity aerials, the lady may be required to rotate without grouping, in which case, her kinetic energy may require even greater partner strength and weight (again, for stability reasons).

CAUTION: DO NOT ENGAGE IN AERIALS WITH HIGH OR MEDIUM HEELS. Ladies who execute aerials always wear flat shoes, with a heel in the order of 1/4 inch or less (my partner was litterally wearing flat soft shoes).

2. Are height and weight ratios of respectively 5'6"/6' 0" and 112 Lbs/170 Lbs adequate for partners to execute aerials? Whereas, the weight ratio is definitely very favorable, to me, the height ratio appears marginal. It all depends on how reliable the lady partner is in grouping when rotations are involved and on how strong the male partner is. Also, let's not disregard the fact that an aerial must appear smooth, and not carried out with male brute force. Where I anticipate difficulties is in the case of advanced aerials.

PEOPLE WHO ENGAGE IN AERIALS DO SO AT THEIR OWN RISK.

AGAIN, NEVER TRY AERIALS WITHOUT ADEQUATE INSTRUCTION AND THE PRESENCE OF TRAINED AND TRUSTWORTHY HELPERS/SPOTTERS AROUND.

I hope this helps. Cheers.

Notes:

A beginner aerial is one where, during its execution, there are two possibilities for recouperating from a fault.

An intermediate difficulty aerial only allows for one possibility for recouperating from a fault.

An advanced difficulty aerial DOES NOT allow faults.

Aerials can be done with 6 count swing as well.

Hello everyone! I seem to be a bit late coming in on these posts, but it's better later than never! I just found this forum yesterday and figured out how to use it today.

Weddingdance: Good for you in taking Lindy lessons from the Swedish.. they rule the lindy floor! Were they from Herrang? For arials, my first suggestion would be to make sure you have your basics down almost perfectly. kinda like when learning to fly an airplane, you have to have so many hours of ground lessons! Next, I would say do not learn from a video, arials are complicated and dangerous enough without a trained instructor who knows what to do. If you do learn from the video, make sure you have extra people to act as spotters- I speak from experience, you do not want to fall or be dropped when there is no one there to catch you! The size ratio doesn't really matter as long as the leader can handle the weight of the follower. The follower MUST completely trust the leader, or else she'll hesitate and probably get dropped because she came too late. personally, I like my feet on the ground!

Raistlyn: There are many forms of Lindy! Savoy was the very first style, and it is very low to the ground, very relaxed. Go rent "A Day At The Races" with the Marx Brothers. There's a scene in the end where the greatest savoy dancers come out and Lindy. Savoy is all about the dancer's connection to the ground- even in arials- despite its name lindy "hop." There is also Hollywood, which is Savoy style all spiffied up for Fred Astaire and other big dancers of the silver screen. It's VERY ballroom-y The Dean Collin's style is really smooth, but I don't know that much about it... some people say it is the same as smooth style lindy, and others say it's different- but there, I know nothing!

Jerry: Lindy Hop was developed by people in Harlem, the legend says it was Shorty George, but there's a bit of dispute as to wheter or not he actually made it up or just gave it it's name. It was the original partner swing dance developed partially out of Charelston. Because it had a complicated 8 count pattern, Arthur Murry created the 6-count step so that people who weren't dance experts could easily swing- because back then, all the music swung! That's why people usually learn it first; it's simple and gives a feel for the music. Be careful of names though, every part of the country has a different name for every dance. To some, it's just 6-count, or easy swing, but other names include jitterbug and east coast which can also be considered another form of dance!

I hope I didn't post this too late.. looking at the dates this string is almost 8 months old! I just noticed that there aren't any recent posts at all in the swing part of Dance Talk...
Swinging out until next time,
Jess

Hey- Yeah! That's great to hear that you are learning lindy hop. And yes in Savoy Style lindy hop. In that style (which is probaly the one that you are learning) your knees are bent and you are also bent at the waist with your upper body lent inwards. There are many other ways of doing the lindy hop though, i.e. Hollywood Style (you kind of have to see it, but you are basicly lent outwards). But yes in lindy you are in a way crouched down. And I think that the person who posted the last message (weddingdance) was, as mentioned, at a begginers lesson. And therfore the leaders may not have had the right form yet and might have looked silly, but in all lindy you are loose and bent never standing up. Keep up with the learning, you can't top the lindy hop!

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MATT BROGAN
Snow8517@email.com