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Judging Well Put
Posted by Three Wise Men
10/27/2009  1:29:00 PM
This is a quote.
Judges who mark couples 4 to 5 places higher or lower from the majority of other judges. Obviously are using other methods to judge dancing.
Many dancers believe that some judges prferentially reward dancers on the bases that they contribute to the judges income.
Nicely put dont you think.
This has been going on now for longer than most of you have been alive. But today with modern technoligy (internet and the like) we can see results almost as they happen and get a print out of the marks. It is my belief that judges like the above mentioned are killing competition dancing. Does anybody else think along those lines.
Re: Judging Well Put
Posted by terence2
10/27/2009  11:38:00 PM
Being an adjudicator for many yrs, I can assure you, in todays dance world, if the "practice " continues, there would be some sanctions enforced to address the problem .

ALL records of markings are sent to the Council, and may be checked to see if this practice was prevalent in past employment.

And yes, it did go on in the past ( and I,m sure does to some extent now ).

My marks are supposed to reflect my impression on a fair and evaluated basis, and I have always marked accordingly..
Re: Judging Well Put
Posted by Three Wise Men
10/28/2009  5:32:00 PM
Terence. Just to get the record straight you wrote If the practice continues there would be some sanctions enforced to address the problem.
I noticed you didn't write will be enforced.
I haven't seen an IDSF competition on the TV for a couple of years where the veiwer see the marks from each judge at the end of each dance. I have several on tape and belive me there are some very debatable scoring like 1st across the board except for this one judge who gave them a 4th place.
I suppose you remember the debacle in the 2002 Ice Olympic Pair Skating where the gold Medal was re awarded the next morning after is was found out that one of the judges had been got at.
I'll carry on a bit here. Dancers quite dancing because of this. Somebody might say but that seems to be self destructive. The dancers leave. Thats right but in a flash another takes their place and the teacher come adjudicator carries on as usuall.
The answer to this must come from the dancers.
This is what happened in Europe a few years ago over a dispute when all the Lain dancers took to the floor without a number on their back as a protest and danced a sequence Rumba in which they changes partners every eight bars.
Unless something like this is done the present system will go on forever.
This subject is at present being debated on Dancesport UK.
Re: Judging Well Put
Posted by terence2
10/28/2009  11:30:00 PM
Sanctions are normally done in Private, and they DO happen.. it may result in not getting asked to adjudicate at future events..

As to mark displaying, as in Ice dance, that system was tried and then dropped..I would not have a problem using that system, and it may come about one day.. remember..old habits die hard .

In the final analysis, Judging is simply someones opinion, and their impression on whether or not they like or dislike what is being presented, and comparing it to the other contestants , in a very short time period .. Finals are easier .. rounds are much more difficult ( volume )
Re: Judging Well Put
Posted by Thre Wise Men
10/29/2009  2:18:00 PM
Trence. If the present system is allowed to carry on, as it has in the past, in the future a judge not yet born will be marking their owm pupils also not yet born. There as been a suggestion that a judge must circle the name on their card if that pupil they are marking is one of their own. That might make it slightly more honest. Personaly I think that to make an example of just one judge might let all others know what might be on the cards for they. I think the message is clear.
Re: Judging Well Put
Posted by Iluv2Dance
10/30/2009  12:49:00 AM
Hi to all,
Many, many years ago, it was on one of my first judging engagements, when I was asked who was my winner by a well-known fellow adjudicator. This happened straight after the semi-final of the main competition. I said I had not quite made up my mind - I was thinking you only decided who was the winner in the final. I was told that I think you will find your winner is number ##. During the final I gave this couple 3 firsts and a third. Third place was the position I thought they were.

Nothing was said to me when we left the floor after the final. The results of the competition was given in reverse order. The couple who I had marked to win came fourth. I looked at my fellow judge who just stared straight ahead.

I managed to see the marks and this particular judge gave seconds and thirds. Looking back, this judge could not be accused of marking his own pupils.
Re: Judging Well Put
Posted by terence2
10/30/2009  5:50:00 AM
I too have experienced some anomolies in the past, which I cannot even put in print !...

Bottom line is.. its a human experience..
Re: Judging Well Put
Posted by Cyd
10/30/2009  3:11:00 PM
Terence. Both you and luv2Dance would have experienced this,that the organizer of the comp has told you in no uncertain manner who they expect to win. Don't comply then next time you wont be invited to judge.
I was told of a lady judge who was in great demand as a judge. She did exactly what she was told. So she was assured of plenty of work. Where her bias judging showed up was in another comp , different organizer, same couples. this time her first placings didn't add up when compared to the last competition.
There has to be a solution.
One way could be that no judge knows which events they will be judging. Let them be picked on the day by a number dropping from a globe.
Does anybody have any better ideas than leaving it to gravity to choose the judging panel..
When our Dance Sport was first formed, I believe it is still in the rules. A judge is supposed to withdraw if any of their couples are on the floor. That is an absolute joke. That recomendation didn't last five minutes.
Re: Judging Well Put
Posted by Clary
10/30/2009  2:58:00 PM
It's a small world and many coaches/judges are very popular and sought after for their coaching expertise. So, if your suggestion were put into place, I can picture some finals in which more than one judge would have to circle the names of ALL the couples on the floor! So, what then? Would the judges have to fill in blanks on the scoresheets as to how many lessons they gave to each couple in the previous month/year? And then, someone has to sift through and evaluate all that information; and then someone else has to evaluate the initial sifter to make sure that the initial sifter is tabulating the information honestly and isn't being "bought off"; and then the cost of competitions goes up becuase so many administrative roles have to be paid for . . . .
Re: Judging Well Put
Posted by Cyd.
11/1/2009  2:05:00 PM
Clary. I would ask you this. If you entered yor baby in into a baby show and you found out that one of the judges had their own child also entered
what would your reaction be. You can if you like sustitute baby for a flower show or a cookery contest.
As one guy on the UK site wrote. We must keep drawing attention to the unfairness of the present system which does nothing to stop what is literally dishonest where someone is in reality buy their marks..Surely it is not too much to insist that if a judge has any person on the floor who has had lessons within one year of the competion must remove themself from the judging panel. Or Clary do you think the present system gives us a fair results.

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