Where I live everyone counts swing 1&2 3&4 56. A&M & FAD's studios count this way also, but I have seen world champions teach and explain that 12 3&4 5&6 is more correct. What is your opinion or does it really matter! Also going back to rumba question- Bolero rocks on the 34 which I thought was just slower rumba music. Why doesn't all the latin dances rock on the 23? Thanks Again!!!

Stan...
The jive is done 12, 3&4, 5&6, where you start with the "rock step" or "link". ECS however is usually done 1&2, 3&4, 56 although you won't be faulted or accosted for doing it either way.
Now regards the Bolero, its a different form of the Rhumba, and done SQQ. The Rhumba/Cha-cha/Mambo however are done 2,3 - where you break forward or back - and 4&1. Why this is done is not clear to me. But when you break down the music, say to a cha-cha, this is how it goes.

Bam ba Bam Bam ba Bam
2 & 3 4 & 1

When you pay closer attention to the &-beats, you will hear one '&' is a stronger beat than the other, which invariably is the 4&1. Hence, I think, you dance step-step to 2&3 and side-together-side on 4&1.

I am open to alternate interpretations or more correct answers

sRi.

Shankar, I don't quite follow you with regards to the Bolero being SQQ, because so is Rumba and I'm still confused about rumba rocking on the 12, the 23, or the 34 depending on where you learned. Also don't know why we don't rock on the 23 in salsa. As for swing and jive, whats the big difference. Jive is faster and supposedly has cuban motion, but looks like same dance to me. So WHY the different count. I've been wondering about this stuff for years.

The timing that you dance can vary from piece to piece, but I personally find the SQQ rhythm to be the most musical overall for latin ballads. That's why I use SQQ rhythm for both my American Rumba and Bolero. It's also the argument I use when discussing the merits of SQQ vs. QQS timing with Fred Astaire people. Just ask 'em: What is it in Rumba music that suggests a different timing than Bolero music? Good luck getting an answer.

But you have to understand something about the way the brain works with music: Repetition begets expectation. If you dance QQS timing for years and years, then it's the only thing that's gonna feel "right" to you. To dance SQQ will feel wrong, even if it is technically more musical.

So if you ask an international dancer to break on 1 in their Rumba, they'll think you're crazy, because the've been raised on 2-3-4 timing. It doesn't matter how it got to be that way. It's that way now, and so to int'l latin dancers all over the world, anything other than 2-3-4 just plain feels wrong.

I hope this helps.

Sincerely,
Jonathan Atkinson

Johnathon, Thanks for your reply! I still don't fully understand - guess I never will. It does seem clear to me that it is indeed a mess! I do like some of your answer's and I see no difference between and Rumba music except for the speed. I prefer SQQ as well! Using your logic, I see no difference between mambo and salsa music, but Ron Montez and most salsa videos say break on the 1 beat, while Jose DeCamps say's break on the 3 beat and I have also read and heard you can break on any beat you want to. Let me guess? This too is a mess. I just love dancing! Maybe some ? should never be asked.

Well Stan..
I surely cannot answer why we have different styles and basic rhythms for similar dances either. Jon was right in observing that different styles just evolved over time.

But why one does the link in the Jive to being the dance (i.e. 12, 3&4 5&6?). The reason is the same as why you start the international foxtrot or waltz with a prep-step (as well for the reason given below). First, you give the lady the hint that you are ready to commence the dance. This is most important in the latin closed position dances where one might step on or get stepped on if both partners are not ready. But don't ask me why they don't do so in an EC Swing. Perhaps they should..
And second and more technically, you never start a dance from a "static" position. Hence you do the rock step in a jive (or NC 2-step) and the side-step in the Rhumba and Cha-cha (and the prep step in the traveling dances). Which is probably why, even though I don't much dance American style, when I do dance an American Rhumba, I start with a QQ, allowing the lady time to react to my movement and prepare her for the forward step.

These are all my theoretical observations with some common sense rationale extrapolated to cover the other dances. I sure hope I have been doing the steps not because they are ingrained in me and my muscles but because of the science involved in dancing..

Well, it has been an interesting topic however and one many beginner dancers have asked me before. I am just glad I have more ammo now to gingerly step my way around these somewhat unanswerable questions.. .

Sriram.

Stan,

There actually is a difference between Salsa and Mambo music, which justifies the different styles of dancing to them. It could also justify accenting different beats, too.

The simplest way I can think to explain it is the following: Salsa is to Mambo music what Pop and Rock is to Jazz music.

Sincerely,
Jonathan Atkinson

Whether you start a jive with the rock-step portion (link) and count 1, 2, 3a4, 5a6 OR...you start with the chasse portion and count 1 a 2, 3 a 4, 5, 6 is inconsequential other than for the purists of the dance starting. Thirty seconds into the dance and no one can tell how someone started. Why is it inconsequential?? Well, the music has 4 beats but a Jive/Swing basic takes 6 beats. So..if you do 1 swing basic you've covered 1 1/2 measures; if you do 2 swing basics you've gone 3 measures. So lets say you start with a chasse while your friend starts with the rock/step on count 1. Just 1 1/2 measures later you will repeat the basic beginning with that chasse on count 3 of the music while your friend will be doing a rock step beginning on count 3. Another 1 1/2 measures later and both parties will be starting there basics again on count 1.

Now you are just being difficult Stan ..

Well, seriously, you are correct in stating that once you do a single syncopation or just do two jive/ECS basics, you can't tell the difference on who started at what beat and how. When you look at competitive dancers, you will find that sometime they don't start the jive on the link at all, or the cha-cha on the side-step. The point of the link, like the sidestep, in my opinion is to give your partner notice that you are ready to start the dance. If you can do this in any other way, that is unquestionably fine as well. But when you teach a rookie/novice/beginner, its easier to teach them to start with a prep step on a social dance floor (and I won't go into the technique of teaching here). Similary, a fox trot may be started with a feather (syllabus) or a three step, but it is usually taught with a prep step on 7,8 leading into a feather on 1,2.

Bottom line is, it doesn't matter how you start the dance, but how you finish it... Enjoy dancing.

Sri.