I wonder who can be a judge.
I mean which qualifications are needed. Should a judge be an old dancer, champion,etc..?

and if he/she has these qualifications, what must he/she do? Have seminars or lessons? or? And where are the lessons taken?

Thank you all , by now.

Just thought that I would also add my two cents worth to this topic. I am a professional instructor and have been to many many many comps.... Without trying to offend anyone I would like to mention a few things.

First, most judges are NOT paid that well for the comps. It is assumed that more opportunities for coaching and choreography will come their way (which is where most make their money).

Second, every judge has their own personal standards as to what is correct and what is preferred in the dances. An example of this is a professional heat I competed in a few years ago which had three judges. The dance was Cha-Cha, I received a 1st, 3rd, and 5th from the 3 judges. Why? Who knows. It is probably because I was doing something one thought was correct, one thought was so-so and one hated.

While everyone has their own preferences as to what is correct and or good/bad about judging, there will always be differences of opinions out there. I also know that there is a strict standard for qualifing for judge certificates and different levels of certificates available also.

In most contested divisions a judge can look at the whole group and know by movement, rhythm and fluidity the majority of placements.

Again, not wishing to upset anyone, I just thought I would add my thoughts.

Thanks,

Michael

in Germany ,first you have to get a license(40 h lecture and a final test) and join classes (about 20 h every year) to hold your certified status.
but the most judges with a lower class license are not able to count up to 3. because of that foreign (and German,too) couples dont like to dance world ranking competitions in Germany.

Most of what has been said about judging and judges seems fair. They are rushed for time sometimes, and the more experienced judges have a way of finishing their chore faster. They also do sometimes judge on prior experience, ie. Len's observation of politics. Nothing wrong about it, although I don't fully agree with it. Like he said, he still continues to compete and scrutineer and prefers not to alienate other competitors/judges. The judges at some events have students who may be judged by these dancers at other events, and they are just unwilling to burn their bridges at times .

But it is unfair to claim that judges are universally rushed for time. Ninety seconds is adequate time, nay, more than enough time, to judge 20 couples in an opening round of an Amateur or Pro-Am event. In the earlier rounds, less attention is paid to footwork and choreography than is to the upper body (shoulders, bad frame etc), connection (lead/follow) and timing (both music and synchronicity). A really advanced dancer with the necessary background in technique can do that. I am loath to appear supercilious when I say this, but I can predict about 80% or more of the couples likely to be called back and I am not that advanced a dancer.

However, I am often left wondering about the basis of call-backs in the Pro-category, often left disagreeing with the judges - as are so many of the audience, as witnessed by the boos sometimes heard upon final placements in major events. Here, I strongly suspect some prior associations play a role, although I will be circumspect about mentioning any cases.

The bottom line is that judging is a tough job and no judge has ever been known to get it as right as the audience and competitors ever. One just has to live for another day and hope that one may catch the eye of the judges quicker the next time by improved dancing (or costuming ), instead of bemoaning that one should rightly have been picked in lieu of another couple.

What I am saying is be a dance-Sport about it.. (ha ha).

Oh well, just my 2-bytes, er 2-bit. Ciao and enjoy dancing.

Sri.

David- There is a minimum amount of time that the music is to be played, but I have noticed, at times, less than that--last weekend, when our uncontested events got shorter by the dance. Time is a factor, due largely to "staying on time" for each session. This is why it appears to be rushed, especially towards the end of the session. I also find that a "time waster" is due to the competitor-both amateur and pro is not ready to dance or is unaware that they are to be on the floor-now or soon. The "on deck" is supposed to alleviate this, but sometimes for the same reasons, it often doesn't. Sometimes, though, the DJ is not ready, or starts to play different music for that entry. I feel that competitors need to pay more attention and judges should use the full time alotted to them.

I think one of the problems judges face at the present time is that of time. They are expected to render a decision in less than a minute. We have found that with the smooth dances, that is 1-1/2 times around the floor. Recently we have competed where we only made one round of the floor, this means only about 45 seconds of music. This has forced us to alter our coreography to include almost everything we do at the start. Who can consider color and shade when time is everything. We had one heat under these conditions where we had 3 judges with 7 competitors, and andother with 7 judges with 3 competitors.
I expect in the near future to have one bar of music to dance to, followed by the chairman of judges picking one of our numbers out of a hat to determine the winner. The organizers could make lots of money on this one, only one judge would be needed, and a maximum of heats could be included in a short period of time.
I do feel sorry for the judges as they seldom get a fair chance to do a good job. As we also are often not allowed sufficient time to show our stuff, they are forced to a quick decision.

Dancer, Philipp, Yolanda, and those interested in my opinion: For a recognized competition (NDCA,ISTD,FADS,AMDS, etc.) there are guidelines that are set forth by the NDCA (www.ndca.org) for adjudicators, scrutineers, invigilator, chairman, etc. Check out the website to see what the qualifications are. Some amateur and collegiate comps, however, tend to be more lax in these rules mainly due to low budgets. Depending on the comp, it is up to the organizer who decides who is on the judging panel. Availability also plays a role in choosing the officials. You may see local instructors at these comps, but never at the recognized comps. But, do remember, that judging is largely based on which coupe least offends those judging. Some judges look at technique. Each judge has their own opinion for coming up with their final placements. Even though the music is played for approximately one and a half minutes, judges are usually done in thirty seconds. This does depend on the competition(s) going on at that time. Some factors include: number of couples on the floor, and their competition, as there can be up to five different competitions on the floor at the same time, competitors dancing on time, or not, and judges moving around to see competitor's numbers. As a scrutineer, I have experienced many of the same situations from the experienced and not so experienced judges, but the latter tend to be slower and make more mistakes that need to be ammended before the final scoring. This also tends to slow us down, too. Call backs and placements are scored on a majority of marks. Of course, politics also plays a role, but I won't get into that- as I still compete, and also looking for more scrutineering jobs. As a 'spectator judge', I sometimes don't understand the call backs/final placements of some competitors (the decisions of the real judges). But, then I come to the conclusion that is why I'm sitting in the audience, and they are up there working, and their professional opinions count and my spectator opinions don't. But that is DanceSport! If anybody would like more info on scrutineering, email me at lendawn@att.net. I hope that my input has helped. Keep on dancing!

I agree that competition judges should be certified as a judge. Just as any sports competition where the competitors win or lose by their performance I believe an experienced trained judge should be used.

I have never attended a comp. where a only a teacher has judged so I can't comment on that - however - I have danced comps. where certified judges scored and I have been very disappointed at their performance. I would rather be called back to re-dance and think I'm getting a fair, accurate score than having a certified judge pay little attention to the dancers.

I have taped my heats at comps. and notice while watching them later that the judges were talking and laughing amoung themselves and with visitors at the podium, looking off into space, watching the activity at the line-up, just generally not watching the dancers. I felt cheated! I paid alot of money to be there and alot of time learning the dances.

I want judges that want to be at the competitions. That want to fairly judge. I'm sure they are being paid well for this job. I'm sure they get tired. But that is their job and what I expect to get for my time and money.

But do you feel that some professional, qualified judges have been away from teaching too long to know current closed steps? I believe that if a judge is to judge they should keep coaching, teaching, and updating themselves as much as possible. If away from the lower, beginning levels and the real corner stone of comps. should they
continue to judge?

I have been at competitions where not all the judges were qualified particularly as judges. I believe that without a formal teaching qualification, there is little chance of anyone asking you to judge.

Then again I think that judges should have educated themselves beyond the level of being just a teacher (workshops, certificates etc.). I have been at competitions which were held up considerably by some judges who couldn't finish their marking within the one and a half minutes of music and dancing, so that all couples had to be called back to dance once more.

The most important precursor for being asked to judge is certainly to have a reputation of being technically knowledgeable. Most judges, I believe can tell whether a couple looks good, i.e. artistic side of their dancing, but it is somewhat more difficult to see who's got the best footwork, especially in more advanced rounds.

I haven't been in this business for long, though, so I would appreciate it if more experienced dancers would add to this thread.