I came acroos this abbrivation in your notes on tango and foxtrot steps, refering to CMBF, it's not in your list can you explain?

Thank you.

Sounds like a typo. It should either read CBM or CBMP, which stand for "Contra Body Motion" and "Contra Body Motion Position", respectively.

CBM is an action which describes the progression of the side of the body opposite the moving leg, ususally to commence rotation. For example, on step 1 of a Left Box (Reverse) Turn, the right side of the body swings forward as the left foot steps forward, commencing rotation to the left.

CBMP is a position of the feet whereby one foot is placed on or across the track of the other. It is frequently accompanied by CBM, but doesn't have to be. The most common usages of CBMP are steps taken outside partner, or the second step of a Promenade figure.

I hope this helps.

Sincerely,
Jonathan Atkinson www.ballroomdancers.com

I think you mean CBM can be done without involving CBMP but no the other way around...

Humbly,

Sri.

Sri,

No, actually, you can have either element with or without the other. The concepts of foot position and body motion are not the same. One can affect the other, but not always in the same way. It depends on the nature of the step.

On step 1 of a reverse turn, man is stepping forward. His left foot occupies its own track; It does not step along or across the track of the right foot. Therefore, it is a good example of CBM without CBMP.

You can find CBMP without CBM on any step where there is no rotation, but one foot still steps along or across the track of the other. For example, any step O.P. without rotation such as step 1 of a Forward Lock when taken O.P.

Step 2 of Closed Promenade is a good example of CBMP for both man and lady ("LF/RF forward & across in PP & CBMP"), and yet only the lady has CBM, because she is the only one rotating towards the moving foot. Even if the man were to over-rotate to the left, she would still be the only one moving with CBM because her rotation is towards the moving foot, while his rotation would be away from his moving foot.

I hope that's not too confusing. If you get lost, just remember this: CBMP is a foot position, and CBM is a motion of the body. Position vs. Movement. It's that simple (well, almost).

Sincerely,
Jonathan Atkinson

Jonathan,
I just noticed your explanation of CBM vs. CBMP. I was already clear about the difference between foot position and body movement; however, thanks for the reiteration.

I do however think your definition is controversial. I am open to hearing other's points of view on this. Let me defend my contention of CBMP vs. CBM, ie that it cannot occur.

First, as I said before, foot position alone does not define CBMP. In latin dances for eg., we can get foot placement across the track of the other foot with same 'side leading' (SL). The word CBMP is therefore used to distinguish this 'SL' from the rotation of the opposite side of the body toward the moving foot, aka CBM.

Now, to address the lock step in say a Quickstep, or even a double lock in say the Waltz. Almost every judge in the world would choose not to return a dancer if he does not apply CBM while leading a lock. First, it would be obvious there is no lead and follow. And second, the couple would look so stiff trying to step across the other foot without some rotation of the upper body. The left shoulder swings back as the right foot locks, so as to lead the woman across her body and her LF in front of her RF. Hence, CBM is involved in that figure, as well as CBMP.

To discus your instance of a Closed Promenade in the Tango. I tried to dance this step myself, because the book does not say 'CBMP w/o CBM', just CBMP. I realized as a consequence that at the end of the preceding figure, the link, the body is facing DW while the feet are LOD. In this figure, the LF steps LOD on 1,2 and RF steps across LF, LOD with minimal rotation of the upper body (for the man). There is negligible rotation in this figure because the body is already turned 1/8th to 3/8th from the feet owing to the link danced earlier. Hence, although there may be no perceptible CBM involved in this figure alone, as a tandem of the last figures, the body is already in CBM facilitating an easy CBMP step in the closed promenade.

Anyway, in a roundabout way, I am trying to insist that CBMP cannot exist without CBM, whereas CBM may be done without CBMP.

I am open to corrections of my views, or modifications therein. I am constantly trying to refine my technique, and this discussion can only help..

Enjoy folks, and have a dandy week.
Sri.

Sri,

Judging by your examples I think you're still a bit confused about the nature of CBM, particularly with the language "body is in CBM", which again implies that you're imagining a position and not a motion. The correct language would be "body using CBM".

This is, I beleive, at the heart of the disagreement. Because if you recognized CBM as only a motion, or more specifically, a direction of motion, then you wouldn't be in disagreement.

First of all, CBM is a direction of rotation. Therefore, in order to be using CBM, one must be rotating. So if you have a step that has no rotation, (eg step 1 of Quickstep Lock), you cannot be using CBM. CBM only exists where there is rotation.

Second, CBM is only CBM when the direction of rotation is such that the side swinging faster through the rotation is opposite the moving foot. If I step forward on my right foot and I'm rotating to the left (right side swinging faster), that's not CBM either. Therefore man's step 2 of promenade when turning to left does not use CBM, because his rotation is in the wrong direction for it. In order to be using CBM, he would need to be rotating to the right.

Again, I think you're envisioning CBM as a position whereby the side of the body is positioned opposite the moving foot. That's why you think step 2 of promenade is "in" CBM for the man: because his body is positioned with right side leading while left foot is forward. But the truth is, unless he were to be *rotating* his left side forward, he would not actually be using CBM. He would just be in CBMP.

As far as CBMP goes, you're right, though. If you place one foot along or across the track of the other and take a right side lead, it's not considered CBMP. An additional stipulation to the definition of CBMP should probably also include that the body should be either square to the feet or in opposition, but not with a same side-lead.

Sincerely,
Jonathan Atkinson

hi all

i would rather agree with Jonathan.

CBMP and CBM is absolutely two different and independent techniques. you can do any one of them w/ or w/o the other.

Sri insisted that "CBMP cannot exist without CBM". i think it's incorrect.

i'll try to give another examples.

the 3rd step of feather step. this step in taken in CBMP but no CBM.

the promenade link in tango, man may turn 1/8 to R or L, or none. when he turns to R, he needs a CBM in step 2 while not for the other two cases. however, in all cases, step 2 is taken in CBMP. RF fwd turning to L does not construct a CBM.

the argument of Jonathan is more reasonable.

pls give further comment if any one disagrees.

terence